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John Collison on why Ireland can't do infrastructure

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,418 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    Perhaps because these people can get things done in their own domain?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,337 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    But to me that proves nothing. Just because they did something well in their domain, doesn't mean they would do a great job if they were in government.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,104 ✭✭✭Juran


    I'm glad he was given the voice by the media, as he is saying what most of the public think and know already. The likes of John C & Michael O'leary get media cover and they speak out as no politician in power or opposition will speak out on behalf of the people they are supposed to represent.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,951 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    It shows Ireland in 6th. The Commonwealth Fund’s ‘Mirror, Mirror 2024’ Report does not include Ireland because it just didn't include them, not because they were lowly ranked.

    The The Legatum Prosperity Index 2023 shows us in 23rd.

    My argument is that all of these tables are largely nonsense (though rankings of particular aspects of healthcare systems can make sense) and I'm not the one trying to make some kind of political point by cherry picking the one that ludicrously has Ireland ranked in between Cambodia and Belarus.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,951 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Identifying the problems in a system and "doing well in government" are, unfortunately, fairly independent skills.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,885 ✭✭✭spillit67


    How do you think Ireland managed to greatly outstrip those countries in life longevity and have a far more educated population?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,885 ✭✭✭spillit67


    It’s like her graph which had Ireland as such an outlier.

    Quite clearly it was BS. A sense check would tell you it’s nonsense and to think before you put it out there.


    But this is 2026 so it bangs to be negative and loud. Remember she published that graph and got angry with people who asked her for the sources. When she posted her sub stack, she buried her sources down at the bottom of her piece to vent more. It’s very frustrating that a person like her is getting platformed down as she is disingenuous.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,885 ✭✭✭spillit67


    Do they? He got a piece in the Irish Times and his comments have been discussed.

    His policy vehicle which posts interesting and thought provoking pieces on actual policy is ignored by mainstream journalists who want the easy life pieces.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,418 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    I am playing devil's advocate here to some extent, but there is a sense in which someone could say "I do my job, why don't you do your job"?.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 56,288 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    https://archive.ph/JtSBC

    How Britain Became as Poor as Mississippi

    Who broke Britain? Someone—or something—must have. The past 18 years, enough time for a whole lost generation to be born and brought up, have yielded nothing but stagnation and mass disillusionment. In 2007, before the global
    financial crisis, Britain was at its postimperial zenith. Median household income had just surpassed that of Germany. A pound was worth more than $2, and London was arguably displacing New York as the center of international banking.

    Check out more from this issue and find your next story to read.View MoreBut since then, Britain has been left behind. The country’s output per person is now only just above that of Mississippi, America’s poorest state—and that slight lead is only achieved thanks to London. Outside the capital, in places where tourists do not visit, living standards fall well below Mississippi’s. Brits visiting the United States find that their currency has depreciated to the point where the pound today buys only about $1.35. British wages have lagged well behind those in the U.S., and also those in Germany, France, the Netherlands, Denmark; once you account for inflation, they’ve barely grown at all. Within the next decade, the typical Pole will have a standard of living equal to the typical Brit, if current trends continue.

    the temptation to be smug is strong, but there are a lot of similar forces at work here. or in another way, it's more than just brexit.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,517 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    Without denying that the UK has some serious problems lately, I have to say that this comparison is bogus: it’s really just showing how the growth of the US economy and the strength of the USD has outstripped all other industrialised nations, largely due to the large growth in internet-hosted businesses, and (more recently) AI.

    UK GDP per capita at the “zenith” the article speaks about was 80% of the USA’s. Today it’s 70%. (figures from Our World In Data, here: GDP per capita). Brexit is a big factor in that, but UK GDP has actually grown - it’s just that the US GDP has grown faster than everyone else’s. For comparison, Germany’s GDP per capita was 90% of the USA’s in 2007, now it’s 82%, despite the German economy performing well in the interim.

    GDP, as we should all know here, is not a measure of how well-off the average citizen is. A glance at income equality statistics will show that Mississippi is significantly poorer than the UK (Gini=0.47 vs 0.57 for MS; higher values show less equality), and this is even before you factor in the UK’s redistributive policies like free healthcare.

    On topic here would be the kind of challenges that the UK, ourselves, and also the USA, when it comes to large infrastructure projects. But even here, what looks like the same problems can have very different causes: HS2 and California HSR are similarly crippled, but for different reasons: HS2 was a gold-plated vanity project that was allowed to run out of control; CAHSR was designed with pretty good cost control (remembering that this is an earthquake zone), but then subjected to a short-term rolling state funding model that was wholly unsuited to such a major build, and then starved of Federal funds by Republican administrations with an ideological opposition to any form of public transportation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,819 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    When it comes to both jurisdictions, they both share the affliction that is common law and the procedural nightmare surrounding any development due to common laws spiralling regulatory burden.

    Ireland too is experiencing this, and it is getting worse. The reality is no common law jurisdiction has done well on infrastructure in the past 20 years - it is a system that has now been thoroughly exploited by legal objectors and it simply is unfit for the modern era.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,951 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    The USA is far less centrally controlled than either Ireland or the UK, and while states like California face the exact same problems we see the same issues there - declining populations and stagnant economies outside of niche sectors and it is why states like Texas are seeing huge growth and development.

    HS2 is not a gold plated vanity project - it is a vital infrastructure project that has faced massive costs from appeasing NIMBYs and bogus environmental concerns. Much like Hinkley Point C which is going to waste over a billion pounds to save a few dozen fish.

    CAHSR is not (for the most part) a federally funded project and was never meant to be and the roots of its failure absolutely can not be blamed on the federal government.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,517 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    I did not say HS2 wasn’t needed, or that it wasn’t vital infrastructure. I said it was a gold-plated vanity project. It can be both things, and it is. They set the operating speed at 360 km/h (design speed of 400 km/h) - right at the top of what was deployed globally, despite the relatively short line and intermediate stop spacing: the original HS2 had the same track length as Cork-Dublin. Even though the service speed was relaxed to 320km/h, the original decision had huge knock-on costs in the design of structures and gradients and curves. Of course, once the ball was rolling no solution was too complex or expensive to be added to the project: the infamous “bat tunnel” that was built on foot of no external requirement (no, no environmental group requested this, despite what the Daily Mail says), at great cost, is just the most visible symptom of how poorly costs were controlled. The result was something that was always going to vastly exceed its budget, and that’s a shame, because the UK needs at least one more HS line on top of what the original HS2 route was supposed to deliver.

    Even in its curtailed form, HS2 will free up huge amount of capacity for regional services along its corridor, but the problems were nothing to do with “environmentalism” any more than the Children’s Hospital here was: both are examples of what happens if you do not properly specify a project and correctly project the expected costs before you sign the contracts.

    The Federal government has indeed starved CASHR of funds: a $4 billion chunk of federal funding was withdrawn by the Trump administration in 2025 - from the $36 billion Central Valley section. Trust me, a major highway project would not have have had a Republican-controlled USDoT yanking the money out from it just for an overrun - it was an ideologically-driven swipe at a “woke” project. The bigger issue with CAHSR is the way the State voted its own funding, which left it a hostage to fortune (CA’s direct-democracy creates lots of Brexit-style votes where complex issues are reduced to Yes/No choices), but absolving the DoT is a bit of a strange position to take.

    Off-topic here, but Texas's growth isn’t raw demographics; it is seeing growth because it has set itself up as a haven for tech companies from the coasts, by offering light regulation, cheap energy for datacentres, and a whole ton of tax breaks. The political views of the current crop of Californian tech billionaires are also far better represented by the Texas legislature than the Californian, even if those companies end up locating in the big Texan cities, which tend to be far more liberal and progressive than you might imagine.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,951 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    no, no environmental group requested this, despite what the Daily Mail says

    Environmental groups/bodies don't request anything - they reject plans that don't completely meet their amorphous needs while giving no input on how to meet them. The fiasco at Hinkley Point C demonstrates this perfectly. Having installed their stupid fish disco at absurd costs, Heritage England now say this isn't enough and want them to destroy parts of the coastline to create a saltmarsh that nobody wants. There is 100% an external requirement for these projects to increase biodiversity on a local level - which is an absurd and unachievable requirement which led to this mess. Labour promised to remove this and shamefully backed down. It is absurd requirement on every possible level.

    The entire point of Collison's piece is that the Government - the ones actually elected to deal with these matters - are not able to step in and say that spending 1.5B£ to save a few thousand fish a year is beyond stupid. It has a material impact on every other element of life in the UK and we are more than ok with the trade off.

    HS2 certainly has an issue with old fashioned Nimbyism that the politicans caved to. But the issues extend far beyond that.

    The Federal government has indeed starved CASHR of funds: a $4 billion chunk of federal funding was withdrawn by the Trump administration in 2025 - from the $36 billion Central Valley section. Trust me, a major highway project would not have have had a Republican-controlled USDoT yanking the money out from it just for an overrun - it was an ideologically-driven swipe at a “woke” project.

    Yes, Trump bad. This is not why CAHSR is such a mess. They may have made it worse around the edges, but it is not why it is a disaster of a project. California faces the same utterly absurd planning issues that plague the UK and Ireland. It is why there was a massive fight about a proposal to allow mid density housing around transit locations that every local politician is trying to overturn in their area. It is why when an entire area is devastated by a fire, they are making sure no money goes to anyone who dares try to build anything other than giant one off housing.

    Off-topic here, but Texas's growth isn’t raw demographics; it is seeing growth because it has set itself up as a haven for tech companies from the coasts, by offering light regulation, cheap energy for datacentres, and a whole ton of tax breaks.

    I didn't say it was raw demographics, I said it was because they actually let you build things. Which is why population is increasing and rents are decreasing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,517 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    Oh come on.. there are so many more obvious causes to the cost problems at HS2 and Hinckley, so why pin it on environmental regulation? HS2 was over-specified without adequate investigation of how that specification would translate into build-costs. Starting from a position of zero experience of HSR construction in the UK did not help, but the cost projections were over-optimistic from the beginning - this is the same problem that affected Crossrail: the government got a cost range from their consultant engineers, shouted about the low-end of the range (P5), then lo and behold, the project doesn’t come in at the P5 figure! There’s a reason why the P50 and P95 figures are now publicised for large infrastructure projects here: yes, the papers will get the wrong end of the stick, but stating the worst realistic case (P95) up front avoids the public backlash when a project ends up costing more than the absolute minimum it could ever have cost.

    Once the scale of overrun becomes clear, there’s a tendency for projects to just spend without any control on the principle of being hanged for a sheep rather than a lamb. HS2 has a lot of this: when an environmental group makes an observation (and as citizens they are 100% allowed to comment on what’s going to be built), instead of spending some time to address it and close the issue, money and grand promises were thrown at the thing to make it go away quickly.

    Hinkley Point C is a really bad example to cite in this discussion, and I think it proves nothing, as this design of reactor has been appallingly expensive and late everywhere else it was built too, regardless of legal systems.

    Regarding CAHSR, for the third time I will say that the Federal government pulling funds was not the primary reason for its problems. I’m not going to talk about it anymore because I don’t see where we’re disagreeing. Land use in Los Angeles is absolutely stupid, but it is not a state issue: every city imposes its own rules, and you can see this in action in places like the Bay Area where one city butts right against another, and suddenly just by crossing a road, density increases and there are fewer enormous parking lots around small buildings. Californians, however, are like the Irish in that they’ll do anything in their power to ensure that the market value of their house doesn’t go down…

    The problems here are ones of management - whatever legal or environmental constraints are present pale into insignificance compared to the lack of cost control. You can see this when you compare large but “simple” civil engineering (bridges, roads, water, gas) projects in the same jurisdiction.

    Basically, if you’re not careful, doing something new means paying for all the mistakes up front. However pride often prevents nations from outsourcing these jobs to organisations that have proven that they can do them. How has Morocco managed to develop a HSR line so quickly? Largely because they started from a position of realising that they lacked any expertise in HSR, and so they hired experts and left them at it without “suggesting” stuff that isn’t needed, but greatly increases delivery risk.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,951 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    so why pin it on environmental regulation?

    You don't think 1.2B£ and multiple delays to pointlessly save some fish is an important element of why Hinckley was delayed? And that is only one among many issues. That is an absurd position to take. It is a massive, massive part of the issue in all of these jurisdictions. It is why the EIA for the Lower Thames Crossing ran to 200,000 pages and part of why the project took 17 years to get approved. Again, the environmental regulation in the UK (and it is worse than Ireland but only a bit) requires not just no local impact, but net local benefit - no matter the overall national benefit. It is why you can't give money to a bat sanctuary instead of wasting 100m£ on a stupid bat tunnel.

    HS2 obviously has other issues with the needless tunnelling they are doing in lots of places which is old school Nimbyism but it takes a stark refusal to face reality to acknowledge that huge swathes of environmental regulation today are nothing more than codified nimbyism. I love the environment, but countries are not museum pieces and I care about people more. A cost-benefit analysis needs to be done and under the current framework that is impossible because any cost is deemed too much.

    HS2 has a lot of this: when an environmental group makes an observation (and as citizens they are 100% allowed to comment on what’s going to be built), instead of spending some time to address it and close the issue, money and grand promises were thrown at the thing to make it go away quickly.

    You are fundamentally misunderstanding the issue here. Voluntary environmental groups are frequently annoying but can ultimately be ignored in many cases, the government advisory bodies (and some NGOs) that the govt have abdicated responsibility to directly impact projects. Again, the further delays and utterly ridiculous spending at Hinckley are because Natural England are demanding them - and they didn't demand them up front. They let them waste 700m£ first on the stupid fish disco, then decided it wasn't enough and are demanding they destroy coastline to create salt marshes (something, I would add, the locals absolutely don't want). They made the stupid Bat Tunnel cause they were worried about similar issues with HS2. These bodies never tell them what to do, they just tell them what they have done isn't enough.

    These are huge delays and huge costs that come from the Govt completely abdicating the responsibility for these things - which was exactly Collison's point. Natural England don't make any decisions on whether the trade off and costs are worth it as it is not in their remit - it is elected officials who should be saying that the plant is clearly more important than the utterly tiny number of fish this will save and not done any of this mitigation. It is literally a complete waste of over a billion pounds directly and billions more in delayed start up of the plant.

    Regarding CAHSR, for the third time I will say that the Federal government pulling funds was not the primary reason for its problems.

    And yet it was the primary reason you came up with initially - you said the problem was state funding and a withdrawal of federal funds. It is a state funded project because it is a State project and the State, if it wanted, could override all of the local planning issues as they are the ultimate power. The funding is absolutely, categorically not the problem here. The problem is - once again - they do not want to take control and have abdicated responsibility for it. This still makes it ultimately the government's fault.

    The problems here are ones of management

    I agree, but you are utterly failing to address the exact failures in management that Collison was outlining. Successive governments here and in the UK and in parts of the US have abdicated responsibility for this management to both courts and NGOs and semi state bodies none of whom ever give any consideration whatsoever to the bigger picture and none of whom are or should be empowered to consider the trade offs and make decisions. They will not always make those decisions correctly (and much of HS2 is evidence of that) but the manner in which they now approach planning by abdicating that responsibility to those with no capability to analyse wholistically and no accountability whatsoever is orders of magnitude worse.

    And any attempt to roll back these clearly counterproductive and damaging policies are met with uproar. But they are slowly strangling us.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,493 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    AI can do a good job reading MRIs and CT….. it’s not far away.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,736 ✭✭✭Consonata


    AI won't be able to take the legal responsibility of reporting scans, you will still need somebody to take ownership or reporting.

    Radiologists are safer in their job than people reckon.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,517 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    Let me quote my original post:

    “CAHSR was designed with pretty good cost control (remembering that this is an earthquake zone), but then subjected to a short-term rolling state funding model that was wholly unsuited to such a major build, and then starved of Federal funds by Republican administrations with an ideological opposition to any form of public transportation.”

    The primary cause I put forward was the rolling funding model, with the removal of Federal funding as the secondary. I don’t mind correcting what I’ve written if I’ve been unclear, but this is four times now that I’ve had to state this, when you could have just said to yourself, “oh, maybe I did misunderstand”.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,207 ✭✭✭✭Birdnuts


    https://www.rte.ie/news/primetime/2026/0618/1579209-senator-among-six-irish-on-invite-list-of-secretive-dialog-group/

    I wonder will some people's favourite homegrown tech oligarchs and genocidal state fans be attending??🤔



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,661 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose




  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,951 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Fine, I apologise. You didn't state the removal of federal funding as a primary factor. You stated the State funding model as a primary factor which is still wrong.

    The issues with CAHSR are nothing to do with funding and everything to do with planning.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,861 ✭✭✭Gloomtastic!


    https://www.independent.ie/business/manna-to-cease-drone-delivery-flights-in-ireland-blaming-planners/a/157480511.html

    Ireland getting left behind with Manna, the drone tech firm, pulling all operations due to lack of planning foresight. They'll leave R&D here thank goodness but drone deliveries are the future, except in Ireland. Imagine getting lots of traffic off the roads?

    In the absence of such a framework, decisions are assessed locally, creating uncertainty around the planning and infrastructure requirements needed to support commercial drone delivery at scale.

    “At the same time, the United States, United Kingdom, China and the UAE are demonstrating rapid regulatory progress and strong commercial momentum. As a result, Manna has decided to concentrate its investment, talent and operational resources in markets where large-scale drone delivery is now a reality. Manna has already received operational authorisation in both the USA and UK, and anticipates full authorisation to operate in the UAE this year.

    Will the planners care about this decision? Not a jot. Their No.1 priority is themselves rather than the country they're paid to serve. Just another day closer to their pensions.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,819 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Drone deliveries are not viable at all. Ireland is missing nothing from this other than noise pollution as heavy drones fly through the sky.

    They are not cost effective logistics other than in harsh terrain, of which ireland has exceedingly little.



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