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FourNorth - Quad Track Railway - North Dublin

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36 LastCall


    There are ways around it. Perhaps a 2 weeks engineering possession from December 25th onwards, working 24 hours a day.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,302 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Ways around what, sorry?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,523 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    Yes, that’s what I think too… the option to re-build denser housing on the sites of any houses that need to be bought and demolished could also be used to either offset the costs, or provide a recurring income to Irish Rail to fund maintenance.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 339 ✭✭OisinCooke


    In terms of general layout what seems to be the thinking? I think there are near equal benefits to having the slow lines on either side.

    The west side allows zero crossover with Intercity trains from the Loop Line to the Northern Line, while also allowing for a DART+ tunnel to emerge on the west side of the tracks at Clontarf Golf Club with no grade separated crossover required. Also allows an airport DART spur to peel off at Clongriffin without having to cross the fast lines.

    The east side however allows for DARTs emerging from Spencer Dock to join straight into the slow lines with no crossover required, as well as allowing for some potential peak hour direct Howth trains (along with just a generally smoother platform-platform connection travelling from Howth into the city in the morning). Slow lines on the east also allows a new Fast Line to Drogheda to peel off from the fast lines on the west at Clongriffin without having to cross the slow lines in a complicated flyover.

    I think the whole thing comes down to really what way DU is gonna go, because the general two line ‘X’ shape running pattern of DU means that there doesn’t need to be any conflict-less slow line connectivity between the Loop Line and the Northern Slow Lines as they won’t be used for that in regular service.

    If a DART spur to the airport is planned as well as a fast line to Drogheda, then there will need to be a flying junction at Clongriffin either way, so this doesn’t have too much influence on the layout.

    I think maybe slow tracks on the east has slightly more benefit overall, and even if a tunnel portal at CGC is chosen, the fast lines on the west can just be slewed into the golf club lands, with the DART tunnel ending on the west side, where the tracks climb out of the tunnel and beneath the fast lines to end up on the west side of the line; see the image below (blue is fast lines, green is slow lines and green dotted represents the line descending in cut and cover into the start of a TBM tunnel, with white representing the platform at a relocated Killester).

    IMG_1137.jpeg

    Any thoughts?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,302 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    As you say it should depend on what version of DU happens. Really, 4North & DU should be considered two phases of the same project and DU should be designed (not detailed design but the final portal locations should be determined) ahead of 4North but we won't do that so we should just build the most cost effective 4 tracking requiring the fewest structures. We'll probably come back later and spend more than we had to because of this but that's just the way we do things. Once the 4 tracks are in place we can build flyovers to get DU connected to the right pair of tracks, for extra cost of course.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,582 ✭✭✭jlang


    Your picture does show how little of the golf land would be necessarily retained for rail activity long term. One would hope the council are persuaded to hold back a strip at least this wide when planning the new housing, with enough land and access for portal works that may or may not happen at some point in the next 100 years. And that the zoning leaves the new residents with no case to then object when their little park eventually becomes a rail related building site.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,830 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    I always assumed the fast tracks would be in the centre. It makes the station alterations easier. Widen the whole station and you’re done.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 767 ✭✭✭PlatformNine


    Like @murphaph says the timing of the project is just unfortunate.

    In an ideal world I think DU and 4N would be delivered together at which point you can completely design 4N to best work with the design of the portal. However, 4N is just a higher priority for IÉ and I think even in the absolute best case scenario it will open years ahead of DU.

    Because of that I think 4N needs the slow lines to easily access the through platforms at Connolly making the western two tracks the best option for the slow line.

    I agree with everything you say about the operational benefits, though. I think phasing aside there is more benefit to it being the eastern two tracks, especially if they can swing the IC tracks west in CGC if that is the site chosen.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,643 ✭✭✭Citizen  Six




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