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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    I hope Prendergast starts vs Aus an NZ and Frawley starts versus Japan. I'm just not at all convinced by Harry Byrne, and I think with all of Crowley, Prendergast and Frawley fit, I don't think Harry makes the RWC squad. So a good opportunity to get some much needed minutes into Prendergast and Frawley at 10 coming into a World Cup year.

    It's a big blow not having Crowley available off the back of his 6 Nations performances tho.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,380 ✭✭✭bingobango12


    I would have liked to see Postlethwaite and/or one of the Connacht centres/Tector named ahead of Henshaw/Aki. Thought B Ward was worth a look but happy to see Jansen in.

    Back 3 is suddenly looking a bit callow. TOB and Baloucoune the obvious starters but there is a drop off if 1 of them is injured. JOB is in good form and I like Nash. A pity he has been injured so much. Same with Bolton. Not sure what the point in picking Stockdale is anymore, a really good club player but hasn't been able to step up to international level for years. With Nash/Bolton injured, I'd have brought Lowry ahead of Stockdale.

    I think 6 and 10 will be the most interesting calls in a few weeks. C Prendergast is in brilliant form, Conan obviously never lets Ireland down and Izzy offers a more athletic option for the 6 spot. S Prendergast is starting 10 again for Leinster but didn't have a good 6 nations. Frawley is a perfect bench spot if going for a 6/2 bench with Byrne pretty out of form.

    Edogbo must be becoming a big worry for Munster. Such an exciting prospect but can't seem to stay fit at all. They already have enough for these players on their books paying wages for no game time return. Bar McCarthy, Ireland don't have any players with his size and strength so I hope he can find some fitness next season.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26 oso92


    Farrell has consistently shown willing to blood new players, and in big games. In the 6N alone he gave time to Edogbo and Murray who were both completely unproven at international level.

    Who has missed out?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,093 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Continually bewildered by the conviction that it doesn’t count if a player gets a chance due to injury.

    This is a decent squad with plenty of players who can make an impression, some of them will, some of them won’t.

    It’s as experimental as it could have been.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,467 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    Jude Postlethwaite is injured; he wasn't listed amongst the injured players on the Irish Rugby announcement, but he's been on all the subsequent social media posts as an injured player.

    Of the Connacht centres, I'm pretty sure both Cathal Forde & Hugh Gavin are injured too, and possibly Harry West also. John Devine hasn't shown enough yet to be in the Ireland discussion IMO. I would have taken Dan Kelly with Postlethwaite hurt over Henshaw.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,380 ✭✭✭bingobango12


    Didn't know all of the above were injured. Some amount of injuries including the 10 or so that were named.

    Forgot about Kelly. Would actually have had him in myself for Henshaw and then Tector for Aki but now I see Tector is on Leinster injury list. Down a huge amount of potential young player to look at in the centre.

    Edit: I just checked that second announcement Ireland made and I see they did mention Postlethwaite as injured so my bad for calling that wrong in original post.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 922 ✭✭✭HanShotFirst




  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,965 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl




  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,965 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I'm not convinced by either but probably a fair point that Frawley is more likely to be in the RWC squad. Farrell seems to rate him more too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,093 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    and don’t collapse in on yourself if things don’t go well early on



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 922 ✭✭✭HanShotFirst


    Enlightening

    And dulling

    Give him a break. He lost a bit of confidence.

    The joy people get in knocking him.

    He’ll make fools of you all yet.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,965 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    The joy people get in knocking him.

    I can only assume you have paid literally no attention to what I've said about him over the last few years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 922 ✭✭✭HanShotFirst




  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,965 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Yeah. He was very bad against Italy and stopped playing the game in his usual way and was deservedly dropped (though I personally would have kept him in the 23).

    I've also been extremely consistent that I think he is Ireland's best 10, leagues ahead of Leinster's other 10s and is going to be a stellar player.

    The idea I or FFF get "joy in knocking him" is beyond farcical.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 922 ✭✭✭HanShotFirst


    Farcical? Your trite response to my question was “Be Better”

    You were asked about your assertation that he should have “learned a lesson” in the 6 Nations and that there will be “nowhere to hide”.

    I cannot stand armchair fans levelling that against a player. Particularly a young player who’s gotten ridiculously chastised on here.

    It’s you who should “be better”.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,080 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    I think he'll have to get over not being a competent tackler.

    I can only imagine how he struggles to look the other players in the eye when he avoids contact and concedes ground or a try. How does he look Tommy O'Brien in the eye when they both know TOB would have thrown his body and soul into the same tackle? Same with the rest of the players. I have mostly given up on the idea that he will ever be a good carrier or tackler and I think he just doesn't like contact. But he has other skills which are excellent. I'd imagine it's hard to be so poor at some areas of the game and feel confident.

    If he can maintain the great play in his strong areas, while just getting on with being averse to heavy contact, then he could still have a great career. But it will take a unconventional readjustment to how the team plays around him. And he would need to be clear first choice to make those changes to the team.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,467 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    Yeah, without a doubt Sam Prendergast came in for at times has been way OTT and has strayed into outright abuse occasionally. There absolutely are weird little pockets of so called Ireland fans who seem to delight in seeing him struggle (but @Podge_irl and @Former Former Former are very obviously not those guys).

    But, equally, wrapping him in cotton wool all the time and not acknowledging when he is visibly struggling and not playing well does him no favours. He's still a really young and really talented player, but has some obvious flaws in his game. I've been impressed by his last two performances (v Lions & Stormers), and hope he follows that up again on Friday, but this notion that he shouldn't be suspect to a basic level of scrutiny and criticism when he plays badly is nonsense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 922 ✭✭✭HanShotFirst


    In no way was I responding to a criticism that would fall into the category of the last part of your sentence.

    I’ve no interest in doing that either btw. It’s already been done to death, here, there and every bloody where.

    For everyones sake, we should trust one of the hardest bastards to ever play rugby, both physically and mentally, to try and get the best out of Prendergast.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,709 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    You're not convinced by Bryne, but think Frawley has what it takes to be an international 10? I swear no one actually watches what Frawley does when he's on the pitch. He's a 12, always been a 12. He's plays like a 12 when he's at 10, which is why he has never been seriously looked at as a 10.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Specifically, I think Frawley has what it takes to be our 3rd choice international 10, given Harry Byrne is the alternative.

    I would rather invest time in Frawley there in the event he is ever needed at 10 off the bench, and he also facilitates a 6/2 split better.

    I think there’s more upside to Frawley than Byrne.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,709 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Based on what? Frawley is ok as bench option for a 6-2, if you're willing to give up having a player who can tactically kick and organize a backline. Byrne is a much better 10.

    Post edited by AbusesToilets on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 460 ✭✭Skyfloater


    Funny, I would have thought Bryne's recent kicking from hand has been mediocre at best, hardly a strength of his.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,878 ✭✭✭realhorrorshow


    I thought Crowley's role in the 6 nations was almost like an auxillary centre, with JGP operating as a French style petit generale. Kind of like the way N'tamack plays when outside Dupont.

    If we're going to continue with that Frawley might be the best fit in a horses for courses sense. Wouldn't really feel confident with him outside Casey/Doak though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Based on Frawley and Byrne's respective performances this season, with the prospect of Frawley getting more gametime at 10 next season during a RWC year, all in the context of this as a selection of our 3rd choice 10, and with the vast majority of minutes at 10 going to Crowley and Prendergast when available.

    That's why I think there's more upside the Frawley than Byrne.

    If Crowley had been fit, I wouldn't look to start Frawley in any game.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,467 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    Frawley hasn't really played 10 all season. He started one game - a really poor showing for Ireland A v England (a 14-52 defeat), and hasn't even been shunted in there by Leinster in a lot of games.

    You can say you don't rate Harry Byrne that highly as a 10 if you want, but there's no argument Frawley has shown any more in the position this season either given he's barely played there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    …and hasn't even been shunted in there by Leinster in a lot of games.

    Which is pretty much the same approach I would take with Ireland.

    Plus all the other things I've said about him getting more time at 10 next season, covering more positions, being a better option for 6-2, all in the context of our 3rd choice 10 with Harry Byrne as competition, coming into a RWC year.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,965 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    All the same, for a limited squad like the World Cup I can see Frawley providing better cover as an emergency 10 who can also fill in at 12 and 15. Harry doesn't really provide that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,989 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    But Frawley wont be "an emergency 10" anymore by that stage.

    I know you are seriously down on his ability to play 10, but whether you like it or not he is going to Connacht to play 10 and cover 15 and 12.

    A role reversel of what he's doing at Leinster.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,965 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I imagine he will start off next season as 10 yeah, but I don't expect him to be any better at it there than he was in Leinster. And he will still be an "emergency" 10 in the sense that he will be clearly behind the first two choices in Crowley and Prendergast.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,709 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Frawley is possibly going to be competing with Carbery for that 10/15 spot, depending on how his return goes.



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