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Ireland vs Israel - To play or not to play, that is the question Read OP for Mod Warning

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,521 ✭✭✭Rocket_GD


    Who’s putting words in peoples mouths now?

    I asked as you said you were aware of how these processes work and you gave very little information at all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,521 ✭✭✭Rocket_GD




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,637 ✭✭✭Miniegg




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,401 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,521 ✭✭✭Rocket_GD


    Ah but you’ve a strong opinion on Palestine, so you do care about one a lot more than the other.

    Why did you say you didn’t care about either when that’s clearly a lie?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 116 ✭✭Roman Emperor


    I wouldn't be too sure about that - Israeli football fans are different to your average football fan.

    And Israeli football hooligans are certainly very different to your average football hooligan.

    Israeli football fans, almost without exception, serve or have served in the World's Most Moral Army - an army that's committing war crimes in Lebanon and the West Bank and is prosecuting a genocide in Gaza.

    Unlike the average football hooligan who feels compelled to take on the whole world after a few cans, the Israeli hooligan injects a more professional and dispassionate ingredient into the pastime.

    He will have the professional training to think strategically, will be completely devoid of empathy, and will operate safe in the knowledge that he will enjoy a degree of impunity not typically afforded to the regular hooligan.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,521 ✭✭✭Rocket_GD


    I’ve been as critical as the IDF/Israeli regime as any (in their committing of war crimes/genocide) but I just refuse to tar a whole population with the same brush.

    There are many Israeli football fans who are just passionate about the game, are respectful and just want to watch football.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,478 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    I've never claimed to be Paddy.

    How you getting on with that question about the FAI getting a big payout from their insurance company? You know, seeing as your an expert on the rules.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,478 ✭✭✭dmcdona



    security reason will not normally be published

    And yet you clearly stated that the decision to move the game was nothing to do with the fans.

    You either have inside knowledge or that was a lie. Which is it? Inside knowledge or a lie?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,401 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    I think it's clear the FAI have moved the game because this will be the type of call that will grow and will inevitably lead to trouble at/around Aviva stadium.

    A palestinian "journalist" calling for Irish People to harass companies and businesses. Thats incitement to be violent.

    Post edited by Paddy_Mag on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    This is a perfect example of how rhetoric is used and exaggerated for the means of the individual.

    The "journalist" (what did you mean by using the quotation marks?) clearly talks about people taking action to stop their countries from being complicit in genocide. The links between many of the companies and the actions in Palestine are not only known, but applauded and used as marketing by some of the companies within the global corporate circles that they operate. But he says nothing that equates to inciting violence. He talks about going to the companies and harassing them. That can be nothing more than vocal protests or leaving negative feedback for them online?

    Is that violence? Even if it stretched to painting the walls of their offices with red paint to indicate the blood they have spilled, is that violence? In your mind? I expect you'll say it is, but A; it is stretching to take that position and B; it is ignoring entirely the absolute categorical violence that, for example elbit systems are involved in, or that many western (including some Irish) people support.

    And the Israeli supporting person who tweeted the video, equated this video with the hunting and murdering of Jews during the holocaust.

    Do you see how disconnected that association is and how it hijacks the memory of persecuted people to justify the continued real and active (not imagined in an exaggerated way) violence and death being inflicted on Palestinians. We've been watching this manipulation of the sympathies people held towards the Jewish community being used as a tool of oppression in HD for the last almost 3 years. We've had enough

    There was a match in Dublin 2 years ago of a Palestinian womens football team. Why don't you watch the videos of that night to see if what you see is love and support for an oppressed people, or a dark sinister undertone amongst the crowd waiting to antagonize and encourage aggression as you are suggesting is what exists within those who support the Palestinian people.

    There is zero evidence to suggest that there was a likelihood of violence being targeted at Israeli players or fans which caused this game to be cancelled. Zero.

    Throughout history, we've see how rhetoric is used by people in power to target protestors and often it is exactly as you are doing (hell we saw it in HD from the President of the US in 2020) and to suggest that they are the ones with the desire for and the propensity for violence when in reality, we all see where the violence is coming from. You've told us you don't care about Palestine or Israel, why then are you adding your boot to the neck of the suppressed?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,401 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    "Go after them, harass them". That is incitement. You are making some leap when the guy was making crank phonecalls to a deli in Rathmines. Harassment is a criminal offemce in Ireland by the way. This guy has openly promoted violence and this is no different. Like I said previously, if our useless government had any balls they ship him back to the backwards sh1thole he comes from.

    Any thoughts on the police officer who suffered fractured bones after being struck by one of the scumbags who targetted Elbit? No? PALESTINE ACTION are a terrorist organisation BTW.

    And I won't be using bohemians as some sort of moral guide. A club who signed a rapist and openly celebrated him, a club who has had to issue apologies to a former player and his partner for the vile misogynistic abuse and threats of violence members of that club were directing at that woman. A club who have had a convicted hooligan as club president.

    You really need to pick better footballing role models. The morally bankrupt Bohemians and the IDF loving celtic.

    Throwing objects onto a football pitch is an act of violence, dmcdona even clarified that after the Albania-Israel game. So there was acts of violence at the Ireland v Qatar game, therefore if Ireland played Israel in the Aviva then its safe to assume there would be similar issues.

    The game hasn't been cancelled BTW. Thats FAKE NEWS



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,278 ✭✭✭TokTik


    it’s not advise, Birmingham police literally told Aston Villa not to allow away fans or the game couldn’t go ahead.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,278 ✭✭✭TokTik


    Why was the Israeli cup final abandoned before it even kicked off??



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,478 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    But you said it was just handbags paddy?

    Trying to keep up with your about-turns is getting difficult.

    By the way, any answer on the FAI insurance payout yet? Still waiting…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    "Go after them, harass them". That is incitement.

    I'll put it to you this way, if a football manager said to his team, "Go after them, harass them", you could naturally expect more violence as an outcome from that, than from the statement above in the context in which that was given.

    You're playing the part perfectly of pushing a pro-Israel narrative with all the tips and tricks we've seen them use that have no basis in reality. I don't know if you are doing by accident, or by design, but that is what you are doing here.

    You held off for months and stuck to the I only care about the FAI angle but you're posts have taken on a different tone and focus since the decision was made to move the game.

    Which supports exactly, like 100% exactly, why some of us have been arguing against hosting representatives of the Israeli state in the sort of welcoming manner bringing them here for a football match would be doing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,426 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    Who pays the lad who advocates ‘go after them ..harass them”?

    Might be enlightening to follow the money here?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,521 ✭✭✭Rocket_GD


    So @Paddy_Mag You say you don't care about Israel/Palestine, your words contradict this statement.

    Using your own statement you call Palestine "a backwards little sh1thole in the middle east run by terrorists"

    When asked about Israel "NO opinion on it".

    Can you not see your hypocicy?

    You are not neutral by any stretch of the imagination, please stop pretending to be.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,961 ✭✭✭csirl


    No I didnt. Stop trying to mis-quote me. I gave an opinion and made it very very clear that I was speculating.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Would you think it is equally enlightening to see who has paid for the election campaigns of many influential politicians in the west? Because interestingly, we know of the millions (is it billions at this point) that politicians have received from many very biased pockets but people seem to just shrug their shoulders at that while suggesting investigations should happen in to this side who at most has probably received an airline ticket and a hotel room for the night.

    When Ireland first raised calling UEFA to ban Israel, a very active and prominent Pro-Israel senator in the US (One Lyndsey Graham) spoke out very strongly against Ireland doing that and he spoke about the US investment in Ireland and that that might be at risk.

    Do we think that financial influence on his policy comments would be enlightening, or just some random Palestinian journalist?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,961 ✭✭✭csirl


    Harrasment is a criminal offence in Ireland.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,961 ✭✭✭csirl


    ?????? Aston Villa is an English Premier league club.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,961 ✭✭✭csirl


    Duplicate post



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,961 ✭✭✭csirl


    Dont know - I dont follow club football in Israel. How is it relevent to the thread topic?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,478 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    You clearly stated you had expertise in the matter. You even gave an example of being "involved" in a similar sporting situation and blathered on about security issues not being published. Where's the misquote?
    Spoofer or expert - which is it?

    Still waiting on the FIFA rule expert to answer on the insurance question too. Another "spoofer or expert" question that somehow seems very difficult to answer.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,478 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Enlighten us - what harassment law of Ireland was broken? Is there a prosecution underway? Are you a legal expert too?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,020 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Depends what you mean by 'trouble'. It was more that they feared protestors would try to disrupt the match i.e. protestors invading the pitch mid-match, throwing tennis balls or other objects onto the pitch, perhaps try and block entrance points to the Aviva etc.

    There have never been any suggestions of fears they were going to physically attack the Israeli team or fans or attack Gardai / security personnel.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    So too is hate speech.

    Some of the things said on this thread could constitute Hate Speech to the letter of the law, but none of us are suggesting that that should be the case.

    Taling about the video posted here as if it is indicative of serious intent to plan and carry out violent acts is pushing rhetoric to the extreme.

    We've grown tired of that tactic



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    You cannot expect us to believe this post above, particularly the first sentence AND this post below, particularly the last.

    Which is it, you do not have expertise in how sport works, or you can't understand how the violent actions of Israeli football fans in Israel could be influential in the considerations around Israeli football fans if they come to Ireland.



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