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Ireland vs Israel - To play or not to play, that is the question Read OP for Mod Warning

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,401 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    So you dont know how this works. Thanks for confirming.

    How would the Gardai know about where and when the teams, match officials etc are staying unless they liaise with the FAI as the host nation. This stuff doesn't just happen.

    Joe MCglue is the FAI chief security officer.

    https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2022/0530/1302117-security-plan-in-place-as-ireland-head-east-to-yerevan/

    I never said they direct AGS. They would have to request a Garda detail for getting teams and the match officials to and from the stadium.

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    Ireland v North Macedonia 3 months ago. Note the Motorbike gardai clearing the road. How do you think that gets organised? By magic?

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,478 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Perhaps you should read my post that quoted the Irish Times that clearly states where Israel has played its international games over the last two years.

    Where did I state that Aston Villa played (or might play) Israel?

    You might read my posts more carefully before putting your foot in it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,401 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    Any proof about your claim that the gardai specifically only advised the FAI about the football match.?

    Or are you just a grade A spoofer



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,961 ✭✭✭csirl


    I dont pretend to.be a expert on middle east conflicts or how they started.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,521 ✭✭✭Rocket_GD




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,961 ✭✭✭csirl


    The dangers of using AI.

    Israel is playing the vast majority of its competitive away fixtures at the home teams venue and with their fans present. They are NOT playing tnem in Hungary.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,478 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    But this thread is about Ireland v Israel - not about the UK at all or and UK proscribed organisations.

    Are there any proscribed pro-Palestinian protesters in Ireland?

    You really are all over the place.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,401 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    People can travel over to Ireland to protest at the game if it was staged here. Every hear of Airplanes?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,478 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Do you honestly think for one second that the Gardai would be querying the FAI over their security requirements of Grafton street on match day? Or which hotel the israeli team is staying in?

    The Gardai would have conversed with the FAI about what the FAI had control of - a football match. The FAI wouldn't have a notion about wider security issues.

    There were undoubtedly other issues the Gardai considered - but all the discussion here has stemmed from an FAI presser. About football. Not any wider issues that the FAI has no control over nor any knowledge of.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,961 ✭✭✭csirl


    Stop trying to put words in peoples mouths.

    The majority of people in Ireland are not au fait with the history of the middle east. Its not covered to any great extend in the Irish education system. Most dont have a strong interest in middle eastern history or politics either. Im.sure the converse is probably true for those in the middle east - do you know much about Irish history? Would middle essterns be familiar with the famine, fenians, 1916 etc etc?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,521 ✭✭✭Rocket_GD


    I just asked who’s been the main perpetrators of war in the last couple of years in the Middle East.

    You’re deflecting now, are you genuinely saying that you don’t know who in the region has started more wars in the last few years?

    Yes, I do know a lot about Irish history, A1 in history in 2010 LC.

    For someone who keeps hinting (or outright saying) people aren’t from Ireland your spelling and grammar isn’t great.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,478 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    So go on paddy, tell us all about precisely what the Gardai advised the FAI of that has zero to do with the football match.

    I can imagine the FAI boardroom.

    Gards: "so what are your security arrangements for Dublin airport?"

    FAI: "err, ask the DAA?"

    Gards: "and the hotel the Israeli players are staying in"

    FAI: "err, may ask the Israelis or the B&B they've booked?"

    Gards: "How many security guards will you have on O'Connell street after the match"

    FAI: "err, none, they be helping clean up the stadium?"

    Your arguments (and that's being kind) are weaken than wet toilet paper.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,961 ✭✭✭csirl


    Yes I genuinely dont know. There seem to be dozens of conflicts involving many countries, groups etc. Some ongoing for decades. Some rarely getting any news coverage in this part of the world.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,478 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Are you also not pretending to be an expert in the security arrangements for large scale sporting events in Ireland?
    That's what you said you were - but you've still (conveniently) failed to answer my questions on that point.

    Take a look back - you'll see them clearly a few posts ago.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,401 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    I never said the FAI would query AGS about Grafton Street. Where do you pull this nonsense from?

    The FAI would have to notify Gardai where away teams, Ireland and the match officials are staying otherwise how do AGS know where to go?

    The FAI have obligations to visiting teams as per UEFA rules. Given how outraged some of you are over UEFA not applying rules, I thought you were all experts on them and wouldnt need to be repeatedly pointed out.

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    There is an official delegation from the visiting FA, a team, backroom staff, match officials which the FAI are responsible for. The FAI have to liaise with Gardai on providing security detail, motorbike escorts etc.

    The FAI have a dedicated security expert who a few years ago travelled to eastern europe ahead of an away game when there was protests (armenia) to liaise with the Armenian FA and local police to ensure it was safe for team to travel. Now Joe M Glue is a decent bloke, met him in Tolka park a few times, but i doubt he is au fait with Armenian politics but I would say he met with his Armenian FA counterparts to discuss matters given the Armenian FA have the same responsibilities for their home games.

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    https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2022/0530/1302117-security-plan-in-place-as-ireland-head-east-to-yerevan/

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    Thats how it works. The FAI even referenced in its statement about "operational challenges could impact the delivery of a game on home soil". Thats clearly more then just about the football match.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,521 ✭✭✭Rocket_GD


    So you don’t know that Israel started a war against Palestine/Iran/Lebanon? More than any other country in the region.

    Maybe you need to educate yourself before getting involved in threads around a region you admit you don’t know much about.

    This thread is about a football match but the reason for the thread is because of the want of many to boycott the fixture due to the war crimes committed by the IDF/Israeli regime.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,961 ✭✭✭csirl


    Do you not think that your LC result suggests you've a much greater interest and knowledge of history than most people? Well done on the A1 - difficult to get a result like that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,961 ✭✭✭csirl


    Im honestly not folllowing you - what's your question?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,478 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Take it up with the Irish times then - that's who I quoted. And it was very clear - Israel has not played at home in two years and some of their away games have also been played in a neutral venue (Hungary) because the home nation didn't want Israeli fans rampaging through their cities.

    Israel has played 25 games since their last match in Israel (v Belarus) - 13 were played in Hungary. More than half. Not a majority.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,521 ✭✭✭Rocket_GD


    I don’t get involved in classical music discussions as I don’t have a knowledge or interest in the subject.

    You choose to get involved in something that you claim to know not much about.

    A quick Google search will show that Israel have perpetuated more wars in the Middle East than any other country.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,961 ✭✭✭csirl


    To add to the above, in my experience, the specific security reason will not normally be published. For some events they wont even say it is cancelled for security reasons.

    With one event Im familiar with (not an Irish one), the organisers gave a benign logistical type explanation why an event was cancelled. But behind the scenes it was on security advice. Event was rescheduled for a later date - nobody knew the real reason.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,478 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Of course paddy - I can imagine security at the airport:

    "excuse me would you mind explaining the two x four timber, Palestinian flags and stun grenades please?"

    "Sure - we're off to a footy match in Dublin"

    "Ah, ok sir. Sorry, we just have to ask these questions. Enjoy the game"

    Back into Father Ted territory here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,961 ✭✭✭csirl


    I dont need to take it up with anyone - you quoted the error. The facts are what they are.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,961 ✭✭✭csirl


    Im here because I have an interest in sport and some expertise in how sport works. Thats the contribution I can make to this thread. Im not an expert on the Isrsel/Palestine conflict and dont comment on the rights or wrongs of it - other than expressing a desire for peace



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,401 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    Well thankfully the FAI are a lot more grown up then you. Irs not upto the Israeli team or the match officials to organise anything. The host association are responsible for staging the game and they are responsible for more then just the football match.

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    FAI would also have to provide assistance if requested for Visa applications for visiting teams.

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    Some of the rules the FAI has to follow when staging a game.

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    If the Gardai advised against hosting the game, the FAI could very well have a case for an insurance claim if they have an active policy. Especially as having the insurance in place is a competition stipulation.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,478 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Ok - so now the FAI are directing the Gardai, booking the Israelis b&b (and giving the eircode to Gardai) and presumably even checking the Garda vehicles are fully fuelled and ready to go.

    You're a great one for reading the UEFA rules and inventing an entire fairytale around them.

    Now you even admit the FAI security chief heads off to Armenia and doesn't have a clue. Good job he's not on the Israeli case - "lads, where are we playing?" "In Gaza - it's perfectly safe" "cool. Do they have Guinness?" "Of course"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,478 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    I quoted the Irish Times. Do you really think the Irish times get stuff like that wrong? If you do, that would make perfect sense…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,521 ✭✭✭Rocket_GD


    You’ve yet to show any actual expertise.

    I asked for info on the process and you basically gave me the most basic info that anyone can get from a 30sec Google search.

    Do a quick search yourself and you’ll understand why Israel can’t play at home (hint, they caused the majority of wars in the Middle East in the last few years).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,401 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    Deflection and whataboutery.

    I thought you were an expert on UEFA rules book, but clearly not.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,961 ✭✭✭csirl


    Its more a case that some of you dont understand how things work and get very frustrated when the system doesnt deliver the result you want. Shoot the messenger stuff.



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