Public consultants doing private work

I would take issue with your attitude also to be honest, "if I can't have it no one should have it" is basically what you are saying.

Also when no fully private system exists not much good saying to go that way plus you reduce the numbers significantly who could afford it. The current costs while not insignificant are manageable for a lot of people but making it more expensive means less can avail of it.

Another point not mentioned is if you have a fully private system you may well pull expertise out of the public system, not a good result either.

You are damn **** right I would say it to the woman in tears.

I have seen plenty of rich women in tears because they didn't get special treatment, it doesn't mean they were right.

This entire thread your whole argument is that you want to be able to pay more money and get special treatment from doctors while they are on a shift where they are supposed to be treating everybody equally.

The problem has been explained multiple times and you ignore it every time to just repeat that you should be able to pay extra to have the consultant go to you rather than the other patients in the ward.

Absolutely nauseating.

Restriction of entry to medicine is largely because the State limits what are very expensive medical school places.

Private maternity care seems to meet a unique financial obstacle in the because to risk: the costs of some cases brought by patients can run into tens of millions. This makes practitioners' liability virtually unaffordable/unobtainable. You would need to waive your right to compensation - and I wonder who would do that?

Yes she was working two jobs to afford it as she was so rich.

I am not even making this argument for myself, we had the option of private and we availed of it. If we have another child we will still be able to avail of it. In 20 years time though people may not and I take issue with removing this choice for people when I understand how important it was to have this option for my wife and other women I know or have heard speak on this. I would like it to be there as an option for my children when they are at this stage in life.

What you still don't get is that the choice isn't there for most people, it is only there for privileged people like yourself, and you still want the taxpayer to pick up some of the tab.

You can keep saying this but this still boils down to the care of a public patient suffering when you are in fact in a public system. Doctors on public shifts should treat all in order of priority and needs. Not based on you spending five grand extra for care. As a taxpayer in a public hospital, you should be afforded the same quality of care and not based on fiscal means.

On top of that, in the case of the Rotunda, it was consultants violating their contracts. They agreed to being public only.

The ridiculous part of it is that the HSE imports doctors who were trained abroad, but the State does not allow foreign students who have come here to study under the Irish system to stay in the country afterwards.

As long as 50% of places are going to foreign students at upto 50K per annum, there will be shortages of doctors, dentists, vets, etc.

BBut That's the bottleneck. Restrict the foreign students, fund the universities and in 5 years or so you have way more qualified doctors, etc. Also helps with accommodation. Won't happen because given the choice between funding infrastructure or raising money, we always go for the cash. Growth above everything! Always for the free lunch.

Someone else had the idea first, but it would be a great money spinner for the HSE.

Could a maternity hospital have en-suite private rooms (not private care) that a paitent could book and pay for? For maternity, make it very Instagramable, with upgraded menus and a few spa-like elements; in the private rooms, it would be a great money spinner and popular with some women.

Or could they do the same for all public care? Give patients a choice to pay for a private room, not private care

So it fecking should. Sleeping in multi-bed wards when you're seriously ill, or have just given birth, is barbaric.

Can you produce any evidence to show this is happening as there is no way a midwife would be left dealing with a situation requiring a doctor or consultant. There are lots of doctors and a number of consultants working at any given time it's not just the one private consultant floating around and a load of midwives.

Ireland seems to be going against the trend:

https://cepr.org/voxeu/columns/when-private-insurance-buys-faster-access-public-care

Supplemental private health insurance is becoming more common in universal healthcare systems as a way to secure faster access to specialists, diagnostics, and elective care. This column examines how such insurance affects healthcare use and access. New evidence from Sweden shows that gaining coverage increases and expedites healthcare use, while much of the extra care is still delivered and financed within the public system through referrals back from private providers. As coverage is concentrated among higher-income workers while health needs are greater among lower-income individuals, the benefits and spillovers are distributed unequally.

The issue there is that the extremely expensive and highly personalised healthcare is now becoming unaffordable for universal healthcare systems. A gap is opening up whereby life-saving healthcare will be unavailable to most, with the wealthy elite having access to lifesaving and life-lengthening treatments not available generally.

This is driving internationally the movement towards private care.