Why can't we classify the Green Line south as a Metro now?

It's a lot bendier than just ploughing on along the original alignment though and personally I don't really see a downside to plugging it all in to a branch off an N11 Luas, which itself would be a similar, high quality tramline, but with road crossings. The two sections would be a natural match for each other without any modifications.

To be honest I think if Dublin keeps growing it's much easier to cater to population growth in North and West Dublin rather than trying to shoehorn in more housing between the Wicklow Mountains and the coast, where it's comparatively much more difficult to provide rail based transport. North and West Dublin is flat, open land. It's why I would definitely prioritise extending ML to R&L or Donabate, though I've come to believe R&L station is an ideal place to build a new town around, centred on a purpose built transport hub for north county Dublin. Could be a big interchange station with 4 heavy rail platforms catering to Intercity services and ML for onward connections to the airport etc. Such an extension would open up considerably more than is available even at Leopardstown.

We don't always have to do big bang either. We could agree to preserve an alignment north to R&L from Estuary and south to Woodbrook along the original Harcourt alignment and then add a station every few years, no pressure, no deadlines to get to x by y. Just continuous extension of the route at both ends. The N11 Luas could be the same, once it got to Brewery Road or somewhere to be connected to the rump Luas south of Sandyford depot. I think being able to divert the rump Luas onto the N11 actually significantly facilitates the Sandyford-Charlemont conversion to metro and then I'm not sure I'd be wanting to convert that branch to metro.

I think if we are going to tunnel anything through Bray head it should be a second heavy rail bore. There would be more bang for the buck in allowing full DART frequencies to Greystones and perhaps Wicklow. But then again, I've always believed we will some day have to get serious about Bray Head and dual the track through it.

I'll say this though: I would take any of your ideas in a heartbeat over what we have now! They would all be great in their own ways.

The route can be easily followed on google maps. It starts at the Brides Glen viaduct, passes to the north of Leopardstown Racecourse, down through Brides Glen, across the original viaduct, down through Shankill over the main road there, between the houses and out onto the mainline. The southern part is almost entirely clear of development. Anyone who doesn't want to live near a metro station can have their house bought off them like the Dartmouth Square lot and sold later for a profit.

Edit: I didn't think I needed to show "my" route as it's the original alignment, which can clearly still be followed on google maps, 60+ years after it closed to traffic. That's how well preserved the alignmnet still is. We are blessed to have it and would be mad to ignore it.

Woodbrook Station isn’t Bray?!

Graves on one side, but a fairway on the other. CPO the fairway and slew the DART tracks over to make space or just go up and over the DART tracks and build the metro station where the fairway is now. Can you provide a source for this:

"the graves have been allowed right up the edge of what planners will permit."

None of these things are particularly "simple". The current Metrolink is not the same as the original Metro North. If we apply your logic then because during the original Metro North planning, Glasnevin was not considered it was considered impossible but what do you know, Metrolink is going via Glasnevin after it was considered. Just because something has not been publicly considered yet, doesn't mean it's impossible. It's pretty obvious that the alignment is largely in tact. Precedent running behind the back gardens of south Dublin was set with the building of the existing Green Line. It's nothing new. The outline stuff on the TII website is extremely high level and really just aspirational. No detailed studies of any of these options to Bray have been performed yet. The fact that Cherrywood is now suddenly shown as "metro" reinforces that as we haven't heard any concrete proposals to extend metro beyond Sandyford depot.

Anyway, as I stated above, using the original alignment would still allow an extension to Bray Daly if it was deemed really necessary. Existing bus routes are a non-argument for me. Buses are the most flexible means of transport and can be reoriented as new rail infrastructure comes online. A new bus interchange is peanuts compared to rail infrastructure.

The N11 Luas is a different project to me. I see no problem having metro to Woodbrook and N11 Luas to Bray, but ideally not also going to Bray Daly, but instead serving the western and southern parts of the town and offering interchange to metro as it crosses the N11 near Shankill. That's a clean way of building very straight, high quality alignments that offer more options. These are distant projects though. It's not going to fly politically bringing more rail to Bray before a bunch of other places have it. We are talking decades away.

Sorry bud, you clearly aren’t actually up to date with what has happened.

There is a 100 year sporting lease just signed. Lands were already swapped between developers, the council and the golf club in constructing the new station and parts of housing development.

Unfortunately this is already baked it.

The “logic” is based on facts and actually knowing what has happened in the area.

Your “simple” solution is not there, digging in and adding complexity to justify it at this stage is just being obtuse.

On no level does your project make sense.

I would have thought someone with such a robust plan would be aware of the issues with graveyards. These were specifically cited with the Woodbrook development planning including maintaining sightlines and buffer zones.

In terms of the Shanganagh Cemetery Masterplan and the Woodbrook SDZ, the old line was never protected. Meanwhile the existing rail line very much was front of mind.

Now we are talking about further CPOs. There were multiple agreements made between the existing landowner, the golf club, the council, the developer and Irish Rail with regards to those lands. This has encompassed parkland expansion, housing development, the new station, the golf club, cemetary and even as far as the old Bray dump (near where the Luas will actually go- here the council did a deal with the golf course to bring about another local amenity). The Harcourt Line was never protected. Unravelling this is not going to happen easily.

Your “simple” solution is not actually there. It’s an increasingly complicated plan (more and more CPOs).

I’m also confused by the logic of doing the Bray Luas anyway and then extending Metro to Woodbrook.

Luas Bray solves the capacity issue along the Green Line and N11 corridor for 50 years at least.

I am struggling on the logic of MetroLink to Woodbrook as when a longer term piece. Again it is not integrated with local transport (bus transit is basically built around either Bray Daly station or the N11 corridor). It doesn’t have good integration from the motorways at all, in fact it’s terrible and not what you’d want to be doing at all. At best trains from further south will get to Bray and look to dump passengers off there (if not Wicklow as mooted), bringing these trains any further north would clearly impact 5 min DARTs (again assuming we don’t add in another line or something between Bray and Woodbrook, which seems to have the complexities involved that you are against for Bray Luas). Again all of this is to just get to a housing development, a park, golf course and cemetery. It doesn’t make any sense. If your long term goal was to get a Metro that South, you’d still obviously go to Bray Daly. If it’s going to be complicated, do it to the place that makes the most sense.

Realistically if they want to get Metro further south than Sandyford, they’d just use the old alignment to Cherrywood. It has easier access from both motorways and doesn’t have the complexities of going further south.

I am failing to see the demand though. 2 Luas lines does what is needed in this area. The mixture of the alignment that is still there from the old Harcourt Street line and the old Bray Golf course lands being preserved gets you most of what you’d want in terms of getting another rail line further south.

As a longer term future proofing for growth, Metro to Cherrywood is the answer. But I don’t think this would happen even in our great grandchildren’s lives. 2x Luas lines along with DART will provide all the capacity needed.