Kilkenny GAA Thread

Lads i went to Kierans and I can tell you all the best hurlers went there from all over KK. We also had players from Tipp Laois Offaly Waterford. TThis has been going on for years. The Shefflins didnt go to school in ballyhale. The best hurlers have always wanted to go to Kierans. Go through any KK AI winning team. I think if they are poaching players thats being going on for years too. Its a long time since i was there but definately one or 2 players came in. So what. Thats life. The kid has a chance of winning something with Kierans if he is good enough. There were lots of good hurlers when i was there and one of the greatest.

Now there maybe some merit to the age changes to grades but KK hurling not winning has nothing to do with Kierans. IMO its down to coaching at underage.

More than "I heard it off a lad in a pub in Borris" anecdotal scutter would be a welcome start.

If Kieran's (or any school) are actively engaged in a programme of stealing players from schools offering incentives to do so, they should get a multi year ban from all competitions.

You can't prove a negative Billy, and it's not the job of the person answering an accusation to prove that it isn't true, it's on the person making the accusation. Used to hear rumors about eoin Kelly in my day, but the incentive was just "free boarding", but I never had it confirmed, and he certainly never confirmed anything. Personally I don't think they would bother, everyone wants to play there anyway

What happened to having a bit of respect for other people’s opinions lads. People are entitled to challenge opinions obviously but FFS telling another poster to stop posting because you disagree with their views is not how this is supposed to work .

Surely different views can be expressed and debated respectfully on here? Nobody has to agree with every post but everyone should be allowed to contribute without being met with hostility and being ganged up on. F**k me…. having a go at a poster for being too positive about underage players is a new one on me.
We’re all pissed off with our current issues on and off the field but that doesn’t mean we can’t have a bit more tolerance for different viewpoints

I agree with Nickindublin for what it’s worth….Kieran’s were always winning all Irelands throughout all of our successful years and has very little to do with our current situation.

Was just looking at rolls of honour, Kilkenny's 8 All Irelands in 10 years was probably built on 5 u21 titles between 1999-2008, so lads born 1978-1989, in those lads school going years there was 3 Croke Cup wins in 12 years.

There hasn't been a correlation in Kierans success and Kilkenny's record over the last 10-15 years, surely that merits been looked into? Also I suppose another factor across the board was when schools finished bordering would narrow the net there picking from.

I totally agree with you. Kierans are just winning more than previously and their catchment area has proabbly narrowed as they dont board anymore. When i was there hurlers came and boarded from many counties. Offaly Waterford Tipp Laois and all over KK. You had buses then daily from Gowran Freshford BBridge and probably another few areas. I was not good enough to play but any guys who were decent wanted to go there. If the family had money then they boarded there too.

I think KK problem is a combination of many things as you pointed out. The conveyer belt is not as good and the lack of coaching too. Finances dont help either and Counties with good sponsors and donors have an advantage too. I personally think we need to go back to basics. Good coaching the core skills of the game. Have the emphasis of the skill factor of the game and the the physical. The physical will come with time.

i’m so amazed how quick the CB are able to speed up things as regards the minor set up all done and dusted no **** acting around. It’s amazing how twenty thousand kicks up the hole can do to get things moving, but they still need to go.

Are there really that many from the Wexford side of New Ross who would be sending their children to play GAA in Tullogher? Off the top of my head, I had thought that there was one primary school in Rosbercon but would many from the other New Ross schools really play for Tullogher?

I think what's happening is some parents don't want their children going into Geraldine O'hanranhans so if their looking for alternatives the nearest geographically is the likes of Tullogher and Cushinstown, happening an odd bit in Wexford town too with some parents sending their children to Martins, Shels or Barntown.

In response to the Kierans debate for me there is far bigger problem as I realised when I was talking to someone asked to help review the underage setup recently. In his chat with the reviewers (after he challenged them on some things) they defended the setup and beamed out with pride their stat, that there was "8,500 (or similar figure can't recall exactly) contacts" with players in the development squads this year. A great achievement no doubt!!! He asked a very simple question

"What is defined as a contact?" - They didn't know.

"What was the outcome of any of those contacts?" - They didn't know.

There was more to it than that but this for me shows the heart of the issue, with our development squads, those with ultimate responsibility (CB) have no idea whats going on as there is no actual oversight of the setup. The setup could be amazing and running great but they wouldn't know that either. Their given a report to say 8500 contacts were made so their working hard but not knowing anything about the quality of work being done or even what was actually being counted.

Our coaches are compiling stats to justify their wages and are not actually delivering on player development. I'm not blaming the coaches here, they should not be in charge of their own oversight. The CB are dupped by this great sounding stat. I can hear the conversation in the CB being "god those coaches are doing some amount of work, their great lads, the quality of player must just not be there 🤷, sure we're doing all we can", I've heard similar when talking to some in there before. M Fennelly's mandate was actually to analyse our level of coaching and to improve coaching at every level in the county. I don't know what happened in there during Fennellys time as I wasn't there but by all accounts the coaching level has not improved although the CB are only finding these things out now. Fennelly did other good things but his core objective by all accounts was not met.

We've been coasting for years in so many facets at development squad and CB level. Obviously some of the coaching at the club level is not up to scratch but lets be honest most underage club coaching is done by parents. Many of whom might never have played a huge amount, some not at all. We're lucky out in the Boro we've a great GPO Steven Farrell and he has been great in coaching the coaches. Proper technique of the different skills, things to watch out for and what skills we want to have at each age level etc. Most clubs in the county don't have that level of access to a GPO although more are coming on board. Most clubs are relying on old players to be the coach who can teach, find and fix the problems and bad technique young lads might have. If those lads don't volunteer or have the right temperament you can end up in the situation we're in currently. Lads going into county squads without the basics mastered but also not getting the proper training in their either according to many on here.

We need a complete shake up of the systems in place and probably more accurately not in place. The CB whoever is there need to realise this is their responsibility and you don't just employ someone and tell them to go off and do the job. You need to make sure they are doing the job firstly but secondly that you are actually getting the end product you are paying them for.

The hurling landscape has changed, maybe forever. For a century, you had 3 main protagonists, Tipp, Cork amd ourselves. Limerick were competitive for a couple of years in the seventies and mid nineties. Clare for a 7 year period from 1995, again in 2013. Galway have been around since the mid eighties but have largely underachieved.

All the above have now leapfrogged Kilkenny. Limerick now have the structures and financial backing in place to be successful in the long term. Clare are continuing to produce fine underage and senior teams. Galway are producing talented players that will serve them for the next decade.

What is concerning for Kilkenny is the skills shortage of a number of players representing it. This applies to all teams. Simple things like rising a ball first time or controlling a ball with a first touch. This has to come down to coaching or lack thereof. In a recent match, a Kilkenny player failed to rise a ball first time letting an opponent in for a goal. This was the difference between winning and losing the match.

It is 11 years since we won a senior title, 12 years since minors won. In my opinion, we are farther away from winning a national title than at any time in the last 65 years. Desparate needs call for desparate measures

I personally don't buy the idea that Kieran's is the issue in any way, in terms of inter county anyway. Having our best hurlers in a strong set up run by an excellent coach like Brian Dowling cannot hurt the development of the stronger players. We have been successful as a county while Kieran's were winning, and we are currently going through a bad patch while Kieran's are still winning. Conflating the 2 doesn't make sense to me. The opposite might be the case for those not quite good enough to make those Kieran's teams but who could be good club hurlers. I wonder how many have fell out of love with hurling because they weren't making their schools teams?

You have to have development squads but they need to be more streamlined and most importantly the main focus should be on coaching quality throughout. If that means covering coaches 'expenses' to attract people then that's what we need to do. Better to do that than spend fortunes on gear for the 14-16 age groups in particular.

I think as well that focusing on developing player character and mentality, and also identity, should be near the top of priorities from U14 up. I can see a lack of hardness and ruthlessness in some of our players over the last few years. It's as if we've forgotten who we are and who we need to be as Kilkenny hurlers. It seems a far cry from the abundance of 'mentality monsters' we had during the 2000's and 2010's. Maybe that was down to Cody, I don't know, but we need to get back to that mindset.

Great to see Tommy Walsh added to the Minor management and to get it done and confirmed so quickly as well. Having lads like that involved, who have done and seen it all, should be an asset for any management team. Same urgency needs to happen with Senior, and 20's as well IF the Senior appointment has any knock on effect there. 6 weeks to start of club championships so set ups should hopefully be in place before that.

I wonder will the newly available Waterford job be appealing for some of the potential candidates? Interesting to see what happens in both counties.

Agreed… the whole lack of correlation between Kieran’s and Kilkenny’s success is horse shite in my opinion.

That's a sponsor for their County club league I think.