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Ireland vs Israel - To play or not to play, that is the question Read OP for Mod Warning

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,006 ✭✭✭almostover


    I wouldn't go to that extreme but I agree it should have been played in Dublin and the opportunity availed of to use the game to protest the Israeli regime.

    Simple things like the crowd turning their backs whilst Israeli anthem is played and other means of protest would send a very strong message. Show them contempt and use the game as a protest event.

    Refusing to play Israel and conceding 6pts to them achieves nothing. The Eurovision boycott is an example of that. Play the game and make it abundantly clear that their actions in Gaza are unacceptable.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,786 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Whereas with a game played in Dublin, Israel might refuse to play due to "Security Concerns" handing us the 6 points

    Of course - anybody who has witnessed any of the many demonstrations we have had since Israel invaded Gaza knows they are peaceful protests so that would obviously not fly with UEFA



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,012 ✭✭✭Dr Robert


    There's no indication that Israel would refuse to play in Dublin due to safety concerns. Where are you seeing that?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 25,000 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    Nevermind not playing these matches, if Irish football fans had any morals they'd be demanding that Ireland withdraw from FIFA and UEFA entirely.

    The institutions are beyond saving, they're more interested in sportswashing and corruption than the sport they claim to represent.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,396 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    Israel wouldnt refuse, not a chance. The FaI have ultimate responsibility to ensure the safety of visiting teams as the host nation.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,396 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    Why should the FAI do that when the entire nation happily uses Israeli goods and services daily. So the whole nation has no morals is what you are saying.

    We all happily fund Israel but let's pull the FAI out of UEFA and FIFA for virtue signalling.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,636 ✭✭✭Miniegg


    Voluntary like a neutral being able to voluntarily address/condemn a genocide against innocent civilians and children who are as innocent for October 7th as our children are. Voluntary like not having to describe those being butchered as rapists.

    And if you can't voluntarily condemn this - the basis for the boycott this whole thread is about- are we supposed to believe you care about Qatar and Oman?

    More deflection and hypocritical nonsense.

    Post edited by Miniegg on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 25,000 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    Because it's the right thing to do.

    Your whataboutery isn't an argument against leaving these corrupt organisations. Football's governing bodies are corrupt to the core: when finals are being awarded to the likes of Russia, Qatar and the USA, it's time to question whether democratic countries should have anything to do with these tournaments and should perhaps be forming an alternative body and tournament for civilised nations to compete in.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,396 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    So you agree, Ireland are not voluntarily playing Israel.

    Why should I condemn Israel.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,474 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    If that's your metric for not playing a country, perhaps no-one should be playing Ireland? Clerical sex abuse, Magdalene laundries and all that.

    Whilst no-one condones FGM, slavery and all other abhorrent practices, Genocide is on a completely different level.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,396 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    So you dont want to upset your own life, but you want some extraordinary virtue signalling by the FAI to withdraw from FIFA and UEFA and basically cease all football activity here because without a functioning association there is no game.

    The FAI did that, they are on their own. I live in the real world.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,474 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    If you think the ESC boycotts achieved nothing, then you must have missed the palpable relief of millions of viewers when Israel did not win, even though they were caught cheating yet again.

    If they remain in ESC next year, the stench of all the allegations of the last couple of years will continue to follow them.

    It'll be the same if FIFA eventually ban Israel.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 25,000 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    You think FIFA is a functioning association? 🤣



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,636 ✭✭✭Miniegg


    Because of the genocide. Why condemn Qatar and Oman?

    Why shouldn't you support Israel?

    You posts are spoof Paddy. If you keep engaging with nonsense , I'll keep showing you up.

    Stick to the football aspect as thin a cover as that is, and stop tying yourself up knots.

    Post edited by Miniegg on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,396 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    I never condemned Qatar and Oman

    I never said i supported Israel either

    Why do you keep lying



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,059 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    Can you be specific on what non-compliance with their rules caused the International Rugby Board to exclude South Africa from the 1987 and 1991 Rugby World Cups?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,474 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    I doubt many people are aware they are using Israeli tech.

    But that funding is currently under serious pressure of being severely limited by the EU and others. The UK have just issued the following:

    "It also announced that, for the first time, the UK's official guidance would "explicitly advise businesses against economic and financial activity in illegal settlements".

    Foreign Secretary Yvette Cooper told the House of Commons: "We believe that violent settler groups should not be profiting from the land that they have seized from Palestinians."

    She added that the Israeli government had "condemned some settler violence, but that rings hollow when there is scant accountability"."


    Australia, New Zealand, Norway and many others are implementing similar sanctions.

    So, boycotts are ramping at up at increasing speed. All that remains is world sport - that's not too far away.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,396 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    Am talking about the FAI

    No UEFA money equals no game. No UEFA membership means no European football for the LOI which means a substantial loss of money.

    You would happily kill off football in this country for the sake of some nonsense virtue signalling ideology



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,636 ✭✭✭Miniegg


    I said you couldn't condemn them.

    You asked why should you, I answered.

    I asked why shouldn't you support them?

    You dodged.

    No lies here Paddy

    Like I said, stick to the football good lad yourself.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 25,000 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    A loss of UEFA money would no doubt be a challenge but you're delusional, or lying, if you thnk football would cease to be played in this country without it.

    You really seem to love the "virtue signalling" jargon though you should be aware it does nothing to further your argument which, let's be honest, seems to boil down to the rather indefensible "I don't care if people are being murdered, just don't let it get in the way of me getting to watch football".



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,396 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    "It also announced that, for the first time, the UK's official guidance would "explicitly advise businesses against economic and financial activity in illegal settlements".

    "Advise businesses against"

    Thats not a boycott. Thats a "you shouldn't really do business with Israel but we cannot actually stop you" message. So carry on as per normal.

    India signed a trade deal with Israel only 4 months ago. USA, the world biggest country is Israels biggest ally, financially and politically.

    Our own government watered down the OTB to being basically pointless because its unenforceable. By their own admission.

    I doubt many people are aware they are using Israeli tech.

    Any proof of that? Or just another false claim. I think the whole world knows in this day and age.

    I dont know anyone who isnt aware of the likes of big tech/pharma all have massive links with their sister companies in Israel.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,396 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    Where will the money come from to fund the game?

    Without UEFA the FAI have no money. Thats a cold hard fact. You do understand that basic concept?

    No matches means No income, No kit deal, No TV money, No sponsorship.

    If you don't have referees in the country because there is no FAI then you cannot have games because to play games you need insurance, which needs a suitably qualified referee to be valid otherwise the insurance is void.

    No UEFA means the LOI have no European games. Which brings huge money to the league. Rovers, Shels and Pats brought in over €10m from europe last year.

    But yeah, let's ruin football in the country to poke Israel in the eye.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 25,000 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    Without UEFA the FAI have no money. Thats a cold hard fact. 

    That is a lie, not a fact.

    Ticket sales, kit deals, and TV rights are all still there without UEFA. The GAA do quite okay without UEFA. Without the current UEFA deals there may be less money in the short-term but who's to say that leading the charge in setting up an ethical footballing body wouldn't put the FAI in a better financial position int the long-run since, you know, organisations tend to be more profitable when they're not being skimmed from by corrupt officials or wasting money on gold trinkets to gift to petty tyrants.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,786 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    I'm not, it's a worst case scenario if the game was to go ahead in Dublin

    I never said anything about not playing a country, in fact I stated a prefernce to see us play Israel in Dublin, but I take your point

    Clerical sex abuse and Magdalene laundries are historical atrocities which have received state apologies and compensation. Genocide, FGM and slavery have received no such retribution

    But you do make a point as to the ever diminishing list of countries we can play should we apply our Israeli boycott to other countries that should likewise be boycotted



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,474 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    You conveniently missed the word "explicitly".

    As ever Paddy - you're a great one for twisting words yet shriek and demand apologies when you think people are twisting your own.

    I doubt many people are aware they are using Israeli tech.

    That's what I posted - it is not a claim - that's an opinion. Most people would get the nuance.

    What you also fail to address is the increasing avalanche of Governments rapidly turning their backs on Israel. The lads in FIFA will be watching very closely.

    You can scramble, bluster, lie and obfuscate as much as you like but that hole you're digging keeps getting bigger with every post. It's remarkable how you just can't see it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,396 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    No UEFA means no matches. You do understand that. Every qualifier Ireland play and the nations league are run by UEFA Which is literally the entire lifeblood of the FAI. Matches = ticket sales + TV rights + sponsors + kit deals

    So FAI withdraw from UEFA then they cannot play matches. No matches means no income. So thats a cold hard fact.

    Fans won't buy tickets for non existent games. TV companies wont buy rights for games that are non existent. It hard to get a kit deal when you have no matches, or sponsorship for non existent events.

    https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1230674111873701&vanity=offtheball

    The "ethical footballing body" is pie in the sky nonsense, it won't happen. Try living in the real world.

    The GAA are localised version of UEFA for gaelic games. Its not even the same sport FFS.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,396 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    So the government are explicitly telling business not to do business with Israel or else, what? Nothing

    There is no mention of a boycott anywhere.

    Its all just wishful thinking on your part. Governments making noises but no actual enforceable action. So its not a boycott. Its actually just virtue signalling nonsense.

    You made a claim, thats your opinion. But its backed up with nothing other then wishful thinking. Given this countries obsession with israel the entire country knows about the links between big tech, pharma, insurance etc but they carry on as normal which speaks volumes.

    Any proof that the lads in FIFA are watching closely? Or is that just more bluster



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 25,000 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 25,000 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    No UEFA means no matches in UEFA tournaments or qualifiers for same. It doesn't mean we can't host friendlies against other nations, compete in non UEFA associated tournaments or, indeed, continue to have a League of Ireland.

    Though that said, if an "ethical footballing body" is pie in the sky nonsense, perhaps the world would be a better place without footballl altogether…



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,513 ✭✭✭Rocket_GD


    Everything is "virtue signaling" it appears.

    Still waiting to hear of a protest or movement that wasn't virtue signaling according to some, although I doubt that'll ever happen.



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