Ireland vs Israel - To play or not to play, that is the question Read OP for Mod Warning

Did they? Maybe they had reasons other than just the person in question’s nationality do you think.

Wrong again. Calling out civilian deaths does not contribute to civilian deaths. Opposing collective punishment does not contribute to collective punishment. Demanding accountability does not contribute to war. Illogicial nonsense.

Wanting civilians protected is not "taking sides". It's taking the side of civilians. You trying to blur that simple premise says a lot about you.

Claiming "peace" while arguing that everyone should stay quiet and carry on as normal is not a peace argument. It's an argument for indifference at best, or to keep this whole thing going at worst. Only you know the truth.

And cmon, ye lads love doing this. simply declaring "I'm consistent" doesn't make it true when your posts dispute it.

If your position is genuinely that sport and politics should always be separate, then fair enough. But that's not an argument against people who disagree. It's just a statement of your own belief. The rest is nonsense.

But you"re NOT targeting or calling out those responsible. You"re targeting a sports organisation who has no role in what you're calling out. You"re blaming the wrong people.

The CAS ruling on Russia makes it very clear that they are not responsible for the actions of their Government - their exclusion was for other reasons.

Suspensions should be given out when a sports federation itself is not adhering to the rules. The SA exclusion was due to the sports organisations themselves having racist rules/policies.

A sports federation that is fully inclusive and respects human rights can have a very powerful positive influence in a country where the government does not respect human rights.

In the current day, I would question the following:

Should Afghanistan be suspended from cricket because they wont hold home test matches for their womens team?

Should Iran be suspended from soccer because of that episode in Australia?

I think a case should be made for either but you seem to have a strange view that if a society is immoral the sports association should still be allowed to compete but there should only be a ban if the sports association is somehow immoral.

So if a country was actually committing a genocide they should only be banned in your mind if their sports association is corrupt. It feels alot like you support sportswashing.

Its an extremely simple premise, so much so that you must be arguing in bad faith by not understanding it.

Nobody thinks the FAI/ Israeli FA/ uefa caused the genocide in Gaza. The question is whether sport should carry on as normal in response to it, that other countries should have to legitimize Israel when they are doing such atrocious crimes. This has been answered again and again. Both the atrocious crimes and the fact international sport symbolically legitimizes countries always somehow allude you

You're arguing against a position nobody is actually taking.

Doesn't mean it is wrong. Doesn't mean it won't lead to.pressure on both Uefa to act, add political pressure on Israel to stop the butchery. I'm open to legitimate arguments genuinely, but engage in smear, ignore the context of genocide, and use whataboutery , twist simple logical and moral positions, it will be pushed back on.

The sporting boycott of apartheid South Africa wasn't because rugby unions /fas / cricket teams created apartheid, that is what you are saying using your logical argument.

The boycott contributed in a big way to the end of apartheid, logically you are arguing that the boycott against SA was wrong. Is that what you genuinely think?

not true. Belgium is one example of a team that have also not played Israel in their home venue with fans. You’d already know that.

Some in Ireland would like to see the game completely cancelled in the hopes that it would trigger an outright ban on Israel which is what should happen. These things that need to happen have to start somewhere. Russia got banned after Poland said they wouldn’t play them and that was followed by an official UEFA/FIFA ban IIRC. You’d know more about that than I would (from your time in sport) and you spend a lot more time on this thread.

Also to add when you say “Ireland very much an outlier hete (sic)”, you make it sound like a bad thing. Being an outlier some times is a good thing and a necessary show of leadership to bring about necessary change.

You really come across as someone who’s got the wrong end of the stick here.

This is a completely different issue to the Gaza one!

So you've moved from 'sport should never be political' to 'the South African boycott was justified because South African sport was part of the problem.'

That's a concession that sporting boycotts can be legitimate.

The argument is now about where to draw the line, not whether the principle exists.

One of the criticisms, repeated here a lot, is that clubs based in Israeli settlements on stolen land are fully permitted to compete by the Israeli FA. You accept this right? So are they not on some level complicit in the ethnic cleansing of these areas, as SA FA was in apartheid? Aren't they somewhat part of the problem? Surely there is a case for this argument, using your logic.

Either sporting boycotts can be legitimate tools in some circumstances, or they can't. You've already admitted they can.

Sporting suspensions are legitimate for sports federations who are breaking the rules of their International Federations, which include inclusiveness. You appear to be failing to understand that national.sports federations are independent from their governments and accountable for their own actions.

In theory you could have a non-inclusive sports federatiion in a fully inclusive country suspended for being non-inclusive. Likewise, a fully inclusive federation in a non-inclusive country would not be suspended.

Israel as a nation agrees with collective punishment of the Palestinians. They have voted for years for governments that have taken land in settlements from the Palestinians. Is the ban of Russian teams acceptable to you?

It’s a reason for Israel to be banned on the grounds of violating UEFA’s own regulations. If UEFA imposed their own rules Israel would be banned from international and European club competitions. Are you disputing this?