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How many of us think that unification is no longer a priority and don't really want unification ?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Back to the original poster question, I think undoubtedly any idea of an island united with a parliament in Dublin, recognising the Tricolour and the Soldiers Song, and expecting the people of Northern Ireland,who have had their own place for over 100 years, to acquiesce, is indeed a pipe dream



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,061 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Distraction and off topic.

    Staying on topic, why do you think you have a right to dictate what people can protest about in a UI when you don’t have that right in the North if it is peaceful and within the law.



  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 4,710 Mod ✭✭✭✭Ozymandius2011


    Do you defend the settlements and the blocking of food and medicine in Gaza? Oppression breeds resistance



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    I am reluctant to comment on other peoples conflicts. Too many did it in Northern Ireland.   

    I absolutely condemn anyone who keeps food away from children.  I certainly do not agree with everything Israel does nor did I agree with everything that my Community was responsible for in Northern Ireland.   

    I do struggle greatly to understand the hatred of Jewish people and the state of Israel.  Hamas have been much more damaging to the Palestinian people and have kept more food from them than Israeli ever did.   You would also think listening to people that the only way into Gaza was through Israel.   Arab nations control much of the access to Gaza and they just keep building higher walls and more barbed wire fences.  I have no idea why the Arab nations do not send supplies into Gaza.   

    That absolutely does not absolve Israel from helping also    

    I have asked many times in many places for someone to tell me why Ireland is infatuated with Palestine and why they raise it above every other conflict in the world - no one has yet answered me



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,061 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I think it is entirely related to our history of oppression and resistance to that oppression by a foreign force.
    You too will have to ask why Unionism leans towards the oppressor and the colonist.



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  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 4,710 Mod ✭✭✭✭Ozymandius2011


    Of for heavens sake. Stop equating the Jewish people with the criminal government of Israel. The people who do so contribute to anti semitism. I feel sorry for Jews that oppose this regime, and end up being unfairly blamed for its war crimes.

    And we had every right to criticise the British over Northern Ireland during the Troubles. But even they did not resort to flattening cities like Israel did in Gaza, and they didn't order millions of civilians to leave their homes like Israel has done in Gaza, the West Bank and Lebanon. The levels of force Israel is using is catastrophic and far worse even than anything Ratko Mladic and Radovan Karadicz did in Bosnia.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭JohnDoe2025


    In the North, it was the PIRA and the likes of the UFF who used order people to move from their houses.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,858 ✭✭✭standardg60


    The legacy of no go areas and self governance on a basically street by street basis still exists today as is clearly to be seen.

    I don't know where we go from here but it's certainly not towards a UI in any semblance of the near future.



  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 4,710 Mod ✭✭✭✭Ozymandius2011


    I agree it won't happen anytime soon. The Loyalist paramilitaries have always been deeply involved in this kind of thing. As long as they are around, and we refuse to spend on defence in case they cause a civil war in a United Ireland, I don't think its going to happen. Personally I think they are a potential threat to the Republic even without a United Ireland.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭JohnDoe2025


    The horrific scenes tonight will certainly cool down all talk of a border poll and a united Ireland. Northern Ireland needs to get its own house in order quickly, the failures of SF and the DUP have never been clearer.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,061 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Already you are seeing belligerent Unionists like Bryson and his allies in the south trying to weaponise a horrible crime against a UI.

    They will pretend to care about people but that really isn’t the agenda. Agitators like that need to sit this out and allow things calm down.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,544 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    The episode in Belfast has shown up what lax border control in this country/ EU can do, and how we are been used as a back door for asylum seekers making their way from France to the UK.

    "He is thought to have travelled from Sudan to Paris, and then from Paris to Dublin, before taking a bus to Belfast in February 2023, when he immediately claimed asylum."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭JohnDoe2025


    The episode in Belfast demonstrates the lasting legacy of the Provos and other terrorist organisations. The "community policing" beloved of Gerry Adams and Sinn Fein infected both communities and has led us to where we are today. It needs to stop. SF and the DUP need to tell their communities that "community policing" is wrong, was always wrong, and should never be tolerated.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,061 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady



    It's quite clear that elected reps were stoking this reaction and bloggers were allowed free reign to incite - they have questions to answer here.
    The usual suspects will be all over this trying desperately to make it an issue for all communities when in this instance it is clearly an issue on a number of occasions now - Ballymena, Portadown etc for one community.
    Shameless opportunism.

    Call it out for what it is - racism - and call it out if any community engages in it.

    And maybe take stock by having a read of this:

    https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/comment/opinion/barbaric-knife-crime-didnt-arrive-in-belfast-with-a-refugee...-its-been-here-for-decades/a/156470501.html



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,217 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    A bit of a stretch, John. I'd imagine there are other much larger influences on the actions of a largely racist, far-right, Loyalist mob than the actions of the Provos 30+ years ago and before an awful lot of them were born.

    Unfiltered hard right-wing rhetoric on social media, a sense of being left behind and forgotten by society, the overt influence of drug-dealing CURRENTLY ACTIVE paramilitaries in their communities would all be higher up the list of things I'd attribute it to.

    Were the Provos to blame when similar happened in Dublin too?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,837 ✭✭✭scottser


    Not according to the polls, which is seeing an increase in NI residents across the board wanting back into the EU. Besides, it's probably more practical to transition to a UI over time which will make your 'pipe dream' a realistic goal with a tangible deadline.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,692 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    "However, no one has the right to spread fear, terrorise innocent families, or bring lawless disorder onto our streets. These actions which are intended to whip up fear, division and tension are completely unacceptable."

    Had to laugh when I read this quote from a Sinn Fein MP 🤣🤣🤣



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,394 ✭✭✭Enduro


    Oh man, the lack of self-awareness is incredible.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,217 ✭✭✭Fionn1952




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,061 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Any fair analysis of NI would show in terms of diverting youth away from violent sometimes recreational rioting, what community and it's leaders is way ahead.

    From Feile to reducing their own reactionary bonfire culture to nothing was hard work but it has been done. It simply hasn't been done by Unionism and it's showing here as it will again during marching season when feral youths will be excused by their leaders.

    Not one Unionist leader called out what happened here without a 'but' attached.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭JohnDoe2025


    It's the culture of "community policing" brought forward to the modern context, you can't escape it.

    Traditional Irish music today isn't the same as the traditional Irish music of 100 years ago, or even 50 years ago, but it is clearly identifiable roots are still there.

    Same with "community policing", you didn't see people being burned out of their homes during the riots in Dublin, you did in Belfast, why the difference? You know the answer, I know the answer, it is the history and culture of it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭JohnDoe2025


    I wouldn't laugh, but I understand what you mean. You can't glorify the "community policing" of the 1970s and 1980s when far worse happened and then criticise today, not when the same people are still around. Those who spread fear and terrorised innocent families in the 1970s and 1980s are still being protected today by the same people.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,061 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Sooner or later those who love the 'they are all the same' handwaving will have to confront the reality as to why this is happening again and again in one community.

    Nationalist and republican leaders, SF, SDLP PBP etc lead, They get on the ground and facilitate and organise diversionary activity for youths - Feile and the ongoing work to end toxic bonfire behaviour. They constantly message that they want a future that embraces diversity. I saw GAA clubs on FB last night asking senior members to get on the streets to discourage members from getting sucked in at interface areas. If that's community policing then I'll take that over abdication and tacit support via excusing and silence and standing with hooded threatening men..

    It's not easy work and it is not 100% effective yet, but they are way ahead as the last few nights and the marching season will show.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭JohnDoe2025


    That's complete nonsense.

    Yes, GAA clubs asking people to go out on the streets is directly contrary to the instructions of the legitimate police authority to stay off the streets. It is wrong. Policing is for the police, not for GAA stewards. Next you will be telling me they should be wearing white shirts for identification, like those who "policed" the Storey funeral.

    Secondly, it is not that SF are messaging that they want a future that embraces diversity. Through their constant celebration and eulogising of those who killed in the name of sectarianism, they are fostering division and reinforcing the separation of communities.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,061 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Honestly, opting out of discussing this with you.
    It's hard to take high moral ground lectures from somebody liking posts from a Unionist salivating at the prospects of 'angry Unionists' not being contained' at a protest. post 1018



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭JohnDoe2025


    Fine, just attack me, don't discuss the content of my post.

    "Community policing", whether that is people organising riots, or people out confining people to their homes, is wrong, very wrong. You have claimed that GAA clubs are getting their senior members "to get on the streets to discourage members from getting sucked in at interface areas", is a problem, because what happens next week, if they suggest the opposite?

    Policing is for the police, not for self-appointed local GAA clubs.  



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,061 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Not attacking.

    Encouraging and mentoring vulnerable young people is not 'policing'. It's being properly invested in your community's wellbeing.

    You can encourage them to think of the consequences and step back or encourage them to 'not be contained' and cheerlead them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,217 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    Saying it all comes down to some inherited culture of “community policing” is just a cop out to skip over the very real, current forces shaping these situations today. Unsurprising that you'd want to deflect away from active Loyalist Paramilitaries to whatabout the Provos though.

    You're massively overblowing the differences between what happened in Belfast vs this side of the border. Are we going to pretend that an IPAS centre wasn't burned down in Drogheda? That there wasn't a healthy dose of attempted arson at the Dublin riots?

    Were the 2024 riots in Britain that involved arson attacks on mosques and hotels housing asylum seekers down to the Provo "community policing" culture?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_Kingdom_riots?utm_source=copilot.com

    The cover image on the Wikipedia page for it looks exactly like the images from recent days in Belfast.

    There probably wasn't a huge Provo influence on the riots that kicked off in Chemnitz in Germany either.

    Very similar background, very similar outcome. Maybe you're trying to inflate how significant the differences were because you have an agenda though. Burning houses, burning IPAS centres, burning mosques, burning hotels.....To talk in old debate terms, you're perfectly exemplifying Motivated Reasoning combined with a bit of Special Pleading.

    The spread of far right rhetoric, anti-immigrant sentiment and an increasing sense of deprivation across working class areas are clearly and obviously much more relevant, as demonstrated by the examples provided in different places without the Provos. These are active, right now social pressures not just cultural echoes you can use to shake your big, 'everything is the Provos' stick at.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭JohnDoe2025


    Couple of key differences.

    Firstly, nobody was burned out of their own house in the Dublin riots, with the Belfast riots being on such a bigger scale in that regard.

    Secondly, we have the GAA being lauded on this thread for sending their senior members out to engage in good "community policing". Appeals for calm are one thing, getting out on the streets is another.

    Thirdly, I have been absolutely clear that there was unacceptable "community policing" on both sides in the North. The Provos weren't the only ones engaged in kneecapping.

    Finally, those who ignore history are cursed to repeat it. There are different causes to this round of "community policing", but the culture of it never went away.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭Quitelife


    The DUP who seem to be anti immigrant despite thd Davy they themselves were immigrants to Ireland .
    The DUP and their brethren should return to the mainland of England if they live if so much .
    The majority of people in Tyrone & Armagh are as Irish as anyone from Cork or Dublin and deserve to be part of a United Ireland not trapped in a failed old British colony . Pearse & Connolly etc would be ashamed to think 105 years are getting 26 counties out from British rule we still haven’t got the other 6 .



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