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Immigration and Ireland - MEGATHREAD *Mod Note Added 02/09/25*

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 316 ✭✭Resplendent Moose


    So why do you think they're here? Bonus points if you can answer this without citing Gript/Youth Defence or any other misinformation source.

    A personal invitation to dance, as Nero plays for the last time
    Tonight you will mix with the prophets without honour...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,201 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Well at 80% application rejection rates there's a good chance it's the free sh!t and the soft touch. But I'm sure you know otherwise.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,228 ✭✭✭riddles


    Lets judge Jim on outcome not words. It's not ironic when you look at the volumes of people trying to penetrate the Polish border and their policing of it. And we indulge chancers processing expensive assylum applications and at the end of the sham we expect self deportations or we issue 'leave to remain'. Not to mention handing out citizenship like confetti.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,138 ✭✭✭BP_RS3813


    F*ck Moral positions.

    Your own country and the state of it should come first.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭bored65


    Someone didn’t give Putin your memo

    He deliberately starts wars (plural) and has bands of criminals running riot across Middle East and Africa too to create refugees and drive them to Europe

    They don’t even hide this policy and openly boast about it daily



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,891 ✭✭✭El Gato De Negocios


    Because they can come here and receive bed, board, medical attention and living expenses for doing absolutely nothing. Many will receive JSA which is more a week than the average monthly salary in the likes Afghanistan, Syria or Somalia. You know all this though yet continue to play dumb. Its really weird tbh.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 132 ✭✭dp22250


    The media are now talking about the great replacement theory and that it’s not a theory at all.
    We have government telling us to prepare for an island of 10 million people, essentially the Irish are being replaced.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 316 ✭✭Resplendent Moose


    The island of Ireland has 7.1 million people. Please defend your claim that going to 10 is a "replacement".

    A personal invitation to dance, as Nero plays for the last time
    Tonight you will mix with the prophets without honour...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 316 ✭✭Resplendent Moose


    This isn't the kind of weird zero-sum game you seem to be portraying it as. It's possible for somebody else to get a benefit without something being taken away from you, you know.

    A personal invitation to dance, as Nero plays for the last time
    Tonight you will mix with the prophets without honour...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,175 ✭✭✭Stephen_Maturin


    This is very untrue

    It often is quite literally a zero sum game

    If there are 100 social houses available and 200 families seeking them, 100 will miss out

    Same goes for school places, GP appointments, public transport capacity etc etc

    What’s weird is you trying to pretend it’s not



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,792 ✭✭✭creedp


    It’s just the magic money tree syndrome which invades the ‘be nice at all costs’ people. Of course this magic money tree only provides a bottomless pit of funds for their little moral crusade



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 132 ✭✭dp22250


    When 3-4 million of the 7 million aren’t Irish and you introduce another 3 million the Irish are a minority then. It’s basic maths.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,860 ✭✭✭✭sligeach


    Irish birth and fertility rates continue to decline

    The number of registered births in the State has fallen by almost 18 per cent in the last decade, according to Central Statistics Office (CSO) data.

    A total of 65,909 births were registered in 2015, but this fell to 54,125 last year, according to the CSO’s Vital Statistics Yearly Summary for 2025. However, there was a small increase (63) in the number of births between 2024 and last year.

    The figure for last year represented an annual birth rate of 9.9 per 1,000 of population, down from 14.1 per 1,000 of population in 2015.

    In the same time period, the fertility rate has dropped sharply, from 1.9 in 2015 to 1.5 in 2025. A value of 2.1 is usually considered to be the level at which the population would replace itself in the long run, ignoring migration.

    Our birth rate is lower than the replacement rate, and yet our population is growing rapidly. Why's that? We all know why, though some act dumb or bury their head in the ground.

    The average age of first time mothers in Ireland is increasing as well. I've no doubt that's down to financial pressures, and trying to secure a property. Which again, is a result of our rapidly increasing population.

    And yes, we are being replaced, but not in a natural way or by Irish people.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,175 ✭✭✭Stephen_Maturin


    IMG_9790.jpeg

    ”What do you mean your 6 table cafe can’t host my party of 300?? What a weird thing to say.”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,201 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Oh you're trying to play the semantics game now. Being literal to try and get a "win".

    So predictable. So utterly lame. You just can't release yourself from your ideological prison.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭bored65


    On newstalk discussing why we have 14000 visas to dodgy Russians

    That’s at least 10,000 properties taken off market ontop of all the Ukrainian refugees the Russians have created and driven into Europe



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,138 ✭✭✭BP_RS3813


    Literally everything in life is a zero sum game.

    As @Stephen_Maturin says. One house, appointment, object etc - two people. One has to miss out.

    Only this time we are making it probably 10 to 1 instead of 2.

    Ignoring nationality and race. There are not enough resources or facilities on the island for 7 million. Probably not enough for 5 yet we are aiming for 10? Ffs.

    Population should have been capped at 7 million.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 443 ✭✭sekiro


    Something worth noting is that the supposedly "pro" argument with regards to government policy is almost always centred around finding the hidden racism rather than pushing the benefits and virtues of the government policies.

    I think for me it would be easier to buy into the idea that people are just racist or far-right when there are obvious benefits and the objectors are just cutting off their nose to spite their face because they are out and out racists.

    Let's say the government proposes to bring 500 men from Somalia to Ireland to live as guests of the government using taxpayer funds. What are the positives and benefits? What are the negatives and possible drawbacks?

    I think if you were able to honestly show how these 500 Somali blokes are going to really help Ireland in a big way then it would be easier to show racism in the opposition. Like, who doesn't want a better country?

    However, IF there were a column of cons that says a certain percentage of those men will never contribute positively to Ireland and a certain percentage will commit specific crimes or cause specific trouble then I don't see how it can be handwaved away with veiled accusations of racism.

    They have to make the case that the negative effects are worth the cost to achieve the positive outcomes.

    Almost nobody on the "pro" side even attempts to do this.

    Even the debunked idea that it was "only 33k" was based on the concept that it's a small number so the only reason anyone might object is racism. What do those 33k actually bring to Ireland? If we've got 33k people here as guests of the government, paid for by the taxpayer, then what are we getting out of it? If a small number of those 33k are disproportionately likely to commit certain specific crimes then is that just the cost of getting the wonderful benefits?

    Even the population growth. How is it beneficial to grow the population without also scaling up public services? That's an immediate and obvious item in the "cons" column. Sure let's pump the population up to 10 million in a country still set up to only handle 6 million. Ah but it must be racism.

    That's before you even start considering items like culture, religion, costs of living, the benefits system and so on.

    If anything the "pro" people actually understand that the governments policy on immigration is not good and not working, with some isolated disastrous effects, but they just can't bring themselves to admit there's a problem because that might open them up to accusations of being racist.

    The bottom line is that if the benefits of migration are so good then countries like the UK would be raging that we are basically poaching all of their wonderful new arrivals with better offers and we'd be saying to Putin "keep sending them here Vlad, we are better off for it". Funny how that's not happening.

    All we get are snarky sneering one-liners that often don't even make any sense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,270 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Bogus AS come here because they know that even if their claim correctly fails, they will still be allowed to stay here, by being given leave-to-remain.

    This opens the door to the full suite of social housing and welfare benefits, financed by a crushing 47.2% marginal income tax rate on any earnings above just €44,000.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,732 ✭✭✭Viscount Aggro


    Rural Ireland will be rejuvenated.

    Imagine, Longford town becoming a boomtown.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 18,625 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    You raised the issue about so called " pro posters " .

    Now hear my reply .

    I have posted from a centrist position here for a few years now and have openly accepted where I agree there are cons to migration , when people need to be deported, criminals, problems with government stepping up for Irish people as regards housing etc .

    I have posted many times with detailed answers trying to engage and it's so ironic you write this paragraph abusing others …

    "All we get are snarky sneering one-liners that often don't even make any sense."

    …because often( not always) that is the response I receive !

    Saturday's offering was to accuse me of not engaging in discussion which I had already done repeatedly that day , and was expected to repeat it all again at 11.50 pm and after midnight . Totally unreasonable and unacceptable .

    Why should anyone be subjected to that ?

    It is indicative of a type of mindset from people who will not engage with any other opinion other than their own and seek to drive others from the debate by piling on and harassment . Not all but enough to make it difficult to post here .

    If you want an echo chamber and constant trash posting that's the way to go about it alright .

    Your comments about other posters are guaranteed to draw support more than some of the good points you make about immigration .



  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 4,692 Mod ✭✭✭✭Ozymandius2011


    David Quinn made a good point on the Brendan O'Connor program on This Week when asked about migrant doctors in our health service. He asked why is it that in Denmark, they have hardly any? Denmark has an excellent health service. While I respect and admire migrant doctors and nurses, I think this situation is largely a result of mass emigration of Irish doctors to places like Dubai (at least before the Iran war).

    I'm wondering is the new consultants contract a factor, since it tries to drive private health care out of public hospitals. The Rotunda Hospital is in a dispute with the Department of Health over this. About half of the Irish people have health insurance including some who are low income because there is a perception, rightly or wrongly, that it will get you treated faster.

    I had an operation last year, and on the day, I was offered public or private. I went private just in case. I'm only on a €100 a month plan.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 715 ✭✭✭Marcos


    Here's one for the Irish don't want to work, so we have to import millions from elsewhere to do the menial jobs that the Irish won't do.

    A report shows that 52% of Irish smes get government help to bring in and employ non EU residents.

    “The report showed that 52 per cent of Irish SMEs claimed they received support with administrative procedures such as work and residence permits, while 44 per cent obtained financial support in the form of grants, subsidies or tax incentives.”

    So the government is using our own money to fund the importation of foreigners and not give jobs to young kids or college students. Look at the high rate of youth unemployment and now we know why.

    Honestly, words escape me. We aren't angry enough.

    https://x.com/i/status/2063873519746716011

    When most of us say "social justice" we mean equality under the law opposition to prejudice, discrimination and equal opportunities for all. When Social Justice Activists say "social justice" they mean an emphasis on group identity over the rights of the individual, a rejection of social liberalism, and the assumption that unequal outcomes are always evidence of structural inequalities.

    Andrew Doyle, The New Puritans.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,201 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Mind-blowing.

    You can see it though.. every applegreen around here is staffed with Indians

    Not a very good use of engineers to be honest



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 715 ✭✭✭Marcos


    Would it be a breach of rules if I was to say I posted a video of one saying they came from Sweden and it was deleted by a now ex mod?

    When most of us say "social justice" we mean equality under the law opposition to prejudice, discrimination and equal opportunities for all. When Social Justice Activists say "social justice" they mean an emphasis on group identity over the rights of the individual, a rejection of social liberalism, and the assumption that unequal outcomes are always evidence of structural inequalities.

    Andrew Doyle, The New Puritans.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,523 ✭✭✭herbalplants


    Indians because once one Indian becomes a manager, he will employ only Indians.

    Remember the shills only get paid when you react to them.



  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 4,692 Mod ✭✭✭✭Ozymandius2011


    India is one of those countries that doesnt allow dual citizenship. But in recent years, they have extended more and more rights associated with Indian citizenship to those who have relinquished it to take out citizenship in other countries. This has made doing so more attractive because it means they can still visit and even live in India for a while.

    The key development is the Overseas Citizenship of India scheme. Despite the name, OCI is not citizenship—it’s a lifetime visa/status for eligible foreign nationals of Indian origin.

    OCI holders can:

    • Travel to India without a visa
    • Live and work in India indefinitely
    • Own most types of property (with some restrictions)
    • Access many economic and educational opportunities

    But they cannot:

    • Vote in Indian elections
    • Hold Indian government jobs
    • Buy agricultural land in most cases
    • Carry an Indian passport

    Ironically, India has passed tough restrictions on Muslim immigration in recent years. Even Joe Biden criticised India and China over their immigration policy when he was President. While I don't agree, I do think its refreshing to here countries in the Global South held to the standards Western countries are by western politicians and commentators. While we have been diversifiying culturally, many of these countries, including what is now the 2nd (China) and 5th (India) largest economies have been going in the opposite direction. The Left are mostly silent on this.

    In 2024, Biden called India and China "xenophobic".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 316 ✭✭Resplendent Moose


    So are you seriously trying to say that equal rights cannot be given to one class of person without those same rights being taken away from another? Think carefully.

    A personal invitation to dance, as Nero plays for the last time
    Tonight you will mix with the prophets without honour...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,138 ✭✭✭BP_RS3813


    What are you on about? It's not a question of rights. Its a question of resources.

    Our island cannot handle more then 4 or 5 million. Hence the struggle for GP's, housing etc. More people equals less resources per person so someone has to lose out - and by someone I mean everyone because one GP is now assigned to 10 people instead of 5.

    F*ck off with your moral judging and be practical. Not enough resources/Facilities for too much people. Its a numbers problem and we are playing the game wrong.

    The government think the answer is more people first so that the people build the facilities to catch up.

    Its wrong - you build the facilities up whilst slowing down or completely stopping growth. Only resources perfectly matches population only then do you grow - and conservatively at that.

    Never bite off more then you can chew.

    Poster warned. Do not throw expletives at other posters. The point can be made without them.

    -Mod

    Post edited by Rawr on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 316 ✭✭Resplendent Moose


    You did say:

    Literally everything in life is a zero sum game.

    Now you're saying it's not.

    A personal invitation to dance, as Nero plays for the last time
    Tonight you will mix with the prophets without honour...



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