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Israel/Palestine Thread

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 337 ✭✭StarryPlough01


    Here's my short reply to your above post: “How are you being a catalyst for change?” I see you replied:

    "Are you going to blame me for the failures of the UN?

    ^ WHAT??!! Bishop of Hope, you targeted two of my valid posts yesterday regarding ~~~
    (1) P5, the countries that drafted the UN Charter to guarantee their authority for a single P5 to veto a draft resolution that would have given Palestine full membership in the UN. I explained how the UN Charter's established mechanism copper-fastens P5’s control over the UNSC.

    The US blocked an internationally widely backed UN draft resolution that would have paved the way for full UN membership for the state of Palestine. As I wrote yesterday, 157 out of 193 (81%) UN member states have formally recognised Palestinian statehood.

    Afterwards, a US ambassador argued that Palestinian statehood must only come through direct negotiations between Israel and the Palestinian Authority with the support of US, and other partners !! Basically saying ignore the fact Palestine received 10 YES votes out of the 15 countries involved (one more vote than the required 9 out of 15).

    ^ Of course, US knows best, when it comes to their “special relationship” with Israel - providing their anointed one with massive military and financial aid, and sharing strategic goals that prioritise Israel in the Middle East..

    Read the contentious US-led "Peace" Plan's conditions to Palestine’s self determination.

    As I see it: Palestine as a recognised sovereign state would have changed the geopolitical course of history. IDF actions might have been treated as an invasion of a sovereign country, under interstate warfare laws, removing the legal ambiguities of occupation. Middle powers would have stopped being mealy mouthed in their “soft diplomacy”. It would have put pressure on countries to support Palestine.

    AND, in the second post you targeted, I'd only briefly discussed ~~~
    (2) Germany failing to secure a rotating non-permanent member seat at the UN Security Council. I commented how they were now locked out of the room when critical security decisions are made. I quoted excerpts from reporter Benjamin Alvarez Gruber, fro German Public Broadcast Service DW NEWS. Such as, "many accuse Germany of a double standard when it comes to human rights, when it comes to rule of law".

    Furthemore, you mentioned unnamed “others” posts about UN in a poor light. How can I comment on "others" posts I haven’t read. You didn't provide links.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 337 ✭✭StarryPlough01


    YES, what is happening with UNWRA under Board of Peace.

    I would like to see an update on the stalled UNSC mandated Board of Peace International Stabilisation Force. More info (great headline):
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/trump-board-of-peace-iran-gaza-b2984416.html

    Saudi Arabia and UAE declined to put boots on the ground to manage Gaza’s security without a clear legal framework and guaranteed path to a sovereign Palestine state. They didn’t want to act as a police force protecting Israel’s interests while the unresolved flashpoint disputes - (E.G., over land, final borders, governance of Jerusalem, right of return...) - have not been permanently settled.

    There was a stalemate around disarmament. I did think why should Hamas disarm when Israel has not withdrawn. I read there was a "lower tier" Board of Peace committee of technocrats, who have been denied access to Israel.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 337 ✭✭StarryPlough01


    Isaac Herzog's inciteful language, unbefitting his role as President:

    "It’s an entire nation out there that is responsible. It is not true, this rhetoric about civilians who were not aware and not involved. It is absolutely not true. They could have risen up, they could have fought against that evil regime which took over Gaza in a coup d’etat.” - Isaac Herzog, Oct 12, 2023



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,474 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Proving "intent" is the most difficult part of proving Genocide.

    Senior Israelis have provided that proof many times over with documented statements of "human animals", "no innocents in Gaza", "there will no food, no water". All to the extent that authoritative bodies, humanitarian bodies, Holocaust experts and Jewish bodies have clearly stated that Israel is committing Genocide.

    The only body that can make the judgement though is the ICJ. Their rulings so far indicate they are predisposed to finding that Israel has committed Genocide.

    Those who argue otherwise are locked somewhere in the first three stages of grief.

    Perhaps what we are seeing in Israel with the collapse of societal law and order and the rise of anarchy is indicative of those entering the "depression" stage.

    Your posts hover between anger and denial. But I see signs of progress.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,076 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    I don't know if the toxicity has increased or if their toxicity armour has worn off.

    The events of October 7 didn't happen out of nowhere.

    Ban billionaires



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,049 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    You seem to be stating that the actions of "Iran, Hamas and Hezbollah" justifies genocide………….



  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 5,596 Mod ✭✭✭✭Rawr


    @Enduro & @Tacitus Kilgore DCLXVI The pair of you need to cut it out with the blickering between you and get back to discussing the topic. Fail to follow this and bans will be on their way.

    Try to be civil, and if you can't manage that: do not post.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,932 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Would you accept that Israel killed and maimed a lot more people than it needed to in order to achieve it's war aims and annexation? The 20,000 innocent children for example. Don't really expect an honest response.

    Post edited by Cluedo Monopoly on

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth house?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,011 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Nobody would suggest for a moment that the disgusting and evil terrorist attacks by Hamas on October 7th were in any way justified, nor the murder of many hundreds of innocent Israeli civilians.

    But the very existence of Hamas in the face of an exceptionally violent and aggressive colonial apartheid state, currently run by genocidal far right extremists, in the form of Israel can hardly come as a surprise to anyone. The idea too that Israel is merely operating in a 'defensive' manner would be strongly disputed by huge numbers of analysts - it is very clearly an expansionist project with a view to obtaining its own version of Lebensraum.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,358 ✭✭✭Bishop of hope


    Fair enough. Today you dealt with my post rather than asking a personal and perhaps accusing question.

    It still doesn't negate my point about the soundbite UN. We are heading for three years now and tens of thousands dead. The war hasn't finished, its just moved on to the west bank and now, Lebanon. Israel continue illegal settlements and displacing Palestinians and the UN are still just throwing resolutions and condemnation at it. Its effectiveness seems to me to be Zero as regards settlement of any of the wars going on in the world ATM. The one thing I'd praise them for is their humanitarian aid programme which I would say has saved thousands of lives.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,049 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Bit of good news -

    "Minister for Justice Jim O'Callaghan is introducing travel bans on
    Israeli ministers Itamar Ben-Gvir and Bezalel Smotrich, Taoiseach
    Micheál Martin has confirmed."

    https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2026/0605/1576948-israel-travel-ban/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,095 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    This decision is insufficient.

    The two individuals cited are part of a government. The leadership and other members of which have not chastised, censured, stopped or otherwise disowned what these two creatures have said or done.

    Netanyahu only scolded Ben Gvir after someone in the American administration upbraided him in turn for the disgusting carry-on with the aid flotilla people. He wouldn't have done so otherwise.

    And so these travel bans into Ireland should apply to every member of the Israeli government, administration and diplomatic service. Or not at all.

    The time for half-measures is long past.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,474 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    I think the view is that with the ICC warrant for his arrest for War Crimes, Netanyahu is only ever going to travel to countries that would have him. Countries that have no issue with War Criminals of course.

    He won't even fly over States that are parties to the ICC.

    Wholly inadequate, totally agree. But the ball is rolling and precedents are slowly being set. More will follow.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 111 ✭✭Roman Emperor


    It's the "constant drip" effect - maybe insignificant in itself but, coupled with thousands of other seemingly insignificant actions around the world, has the effect of keeping the spotlight on the genocidal regime.

    Keeps the hasbara merchants on their toes.



  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 4,711 Mod ✭✭✭✭Ozymandius2011


    Rep Ro Khanna attacks NDAA that would integrate US and Israeli militaries even more. Its likely to pass though.

    It would mean that aid to Israel, instead of being voted on separately, would be put in the NDAA, which is the law that funds the US military.

    Israeli media reported that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, along with several senior security officials, was in the Western Galilee shortly before a drone crashed in the same location. Channel 15 reported that sirens sounded in areas near the town of Shlomi while Netanyahu was there, prompting security personnel to quickly move toward the prime minister to take necessary protective measures.

    Post edited by Ozymandius2011 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,186 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    Seems the French have opened an investigation into the treatment of the members of the flotilla who were abducted in international waters. Let's see if the poor treatment of Westerners is enough for actual repercussions.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,049 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    If you mean repercussions against Israel by France, it may, for once. Not a hope in hell of any self regulation by Israel though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 337 ✭✭StarryPlough01


    Calling time on mass atrocities

    Larbre34 said: “The time for half-measures is long past.”

    “And so these travel bans into Ireland should apply to every member of the Israeli government, administration and diplomatic service. Or not at all.”

    ^^^ I, (Starry) 100 percent agree with you. The time for soft diplomacy is over. It’s time for countries to completely isolate them like they have done with pariah state North Korea .⬅️

    Expel the Israeli ambassador, make them leave the country, and close your own embassy in Israel. Cut off trade. Let Israel know they are a pariah state.

    Countries fear reprisals from Trump. BUT history will show US as a primary enabler of genocide (mass atrocities). I think this is one of the reasons why Trump wants to replace the United Nations. Because UN has extensively monitored, catalogued and condemned US’s complicity since 7/10. They’ve had independent investigations, etc. #1 US’s continuous flow of American arms to Israel. Trump makes sickening and feigned complaints to Netanyahu calling him crazy. All playacting.

    Just look at Trump’s sham Board of Peace, which expanded into a formal global body to rival / bypass the UN Security Council.

    Initially, the Board of Peace organisation was meant to oversee Gaza’s reconstruction. Unsurprisingly, Trump’s BoP makes no direct mention of Gaza. It defines its goal as a broad international organisation promoting secure enduring peace in any conflict zone. See below: ⬇️

    The Times of Israel has a 10-page PDF with the full text of Board of Peace Charter, as well as ToI article with commentary :
    https://arz.bg/wp-content/uploads/2026/01/Full-text_-Charter-of-Trumps-Board-of-Peace-_-The-Times-of-Israel.pdf
    https://www.timesofisrael.com/full-text-charter-of-trumps-board-of-peace/

    "It notably makes no mention of Gaza, bolstering The Times of Israel’s reporting that the US wants the Board of Peace to assist in the resolution of other conflicts around the globe. However, the mandate of the board approved in November by the Security Council is limited to Gaza and only until the end of 2027. [...]

    CHAPTER I-PURPOSES AND FUNCTIONS (BELOW IS ALL BS)
    The Board of Peace is an international organization that seeks to promote stability, restore dependable and lawful governance, and secure enduring peace in areas affected or threatened by conflict. The Board of Peace shall undertake such peace-building functions in accordance with international law and as may be approved in accordance with this Charter, including the development and dissemination of best practices capable of being applied by all nations and communities seeking peace.

    @Larbre34, In April 2024, a US ambassador stated that recognising Palestinian statehood can only happen through direct negotiations between Israel and the Palestinian Authority with the support of US, and other partners. He dismissed the role of UN.

    ^^^ This US ambassador’s remarks came immediately after US used their P5 veto blocking Palestine’s path to full UN membership for the state of Palestine. Currently, 157 out of 193 UN member states have formally recognised Palestinian statehood (including UK, France, Canada, China, Australia, Russia...). That's 81% of the General Assembly, AND Palestine easily had the required two-thirds majority threshold of 129 in April 2024.

    FULL membership requires a recommendation from UN Security Council. But US (Permament 5) unilaterally wielded its veto power and killed the draft resolution. The Permanent 5 (P5) members must all concur. In April 2024, Palestine had received 10 YES votes out of the 15 countries involved (one more vote than the required 9 out of 15). ⬅️



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,628 ✭✭✭brickster69


    Latest PEW survey from countries around the world. Would be very interesting to see a greater number of African and middle east countries to see what the population thinks of the situation.

    The chart note says: "Those who did not answer are not shown."

    pew.jpg

    The old world is dying, and the new world struggles to be born: now is the time of monsters. — Antonio Gramsci



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,474 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Countries now realising which side of history is the absolutely right side.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭bored65


    India yet again showing that them “easterners” don’t care compared to the “westerners”

    Their population alone is more than the rest combined on that list



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,474 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Is that the sound of clutching at straws I hear?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭bored65


    It’s an observation of the hypocrisy of them easterners constantly giving out about us westerners not giving a f about Middle East



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 337 ✭✭StarryPlough01


    Israel is a scourge on the world.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 337 ✭✭StarryPlough01


    “Sinead O'Connor - If You Had A Vineyard”

    Isaiah 5 “The Vineyard of the Lord … Destruction”

    Sinead said: “For the purposes of this song the word Jerusalem refers to the Israelis and the word Judah refers to the Palestinians"

    “This is God’s reply
    Sadness will come
    To those who build house to house
    And lay field to field 'til there's room
    For none but you to dwell in the land
    Oh in the land

    And sadness will come
    To those who call evil good
    And good evil who present
    Darkness as light
    And light as darkness
    Who present as sweetness
    Only the things which are bitterness



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 337 ✭✭StarryPlough01


    Who is driving the Fascist trend in Israeli society?

    https://www.aljazeera.com/video/newsfeed/2026/6/6/elections-campaigned-on-who-can-be-more-brutal-to

    Political analyst Xavier Bou Eid tells Al Jazeera that decades of impunity have fostered a culture that extends beyond the Israeli state to Israeli settlers and politicians.

    With elections expected later this year, he says, political parties are competing to persecute Palestinians, who remain totally defenseless in the occupied West Bank.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,396 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    Fair play to the new Slovenia government



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,011 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    I'm surprised they didn't replace it with the Israeli flag, given that they are right wing populists and big fans of Trump and Orban.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,474 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Alleged War Criminal #1 (at large) will delighted. Somewhere different to go to for his hollybops (without being arrested).

    Tricky flight plan though to avoid all those countries who'd arrest him and drag him to The Hague to face justice for War Crimes.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,628 ✭✭✭brickster69


    As well as those of a certain political persuasion appear to come from the right side, if not the extreme far right. The more vocal the support, the more extreme and radical they seem. Given the demographics of these types the fewer they will become, which gives some hope.

    right.jpg

    The old world is dying, and the new world struggles to be born: now is the time of monsters. — Antonio Gramsci



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