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How many of us think that unification is no longer a priority and don't really want unification ?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    this is the biggest propaganda I see on this sight. No one in my family has ever waited more than 48 hrs for a go appointment and it is nearly always next day and, if required, same day.
    now if you specify a particular doctor and it’s not time-important then you might wait a week.
    and of course it is 100% free for everyone, as are your prescriptions, blood tests, scans etc that may roll out of the visit.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,960 ✭✭✭csirl


    ????? What a load of rubbish!!!

    Ireland had a High King for 2,000 years before Britain existed. And it wasnt a herediatry High King - more like a prinitive democracy. The Celtic system of rule was very sophisticated for its time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Traditionally, the union versus United Ireland was split fairly starkly along Protestant V Catholic lines.  

    To all intent and purpose all protestants wanted to stay in the United Kingdom and all Catholics wanted to move to United Ireland.  

    Can we agree on that as a starting point?

    The Protestant population has fallen significantly while the catholic population has increased significantly (so much for discrimination).   

    Had these positions remained, and in particular, Catholics had continued to yearn for a united Ireland en masse, then there would be a clear majority now for united Ireland.  The problem for Republicans is that more and more Catholics are going off the idea of united Ireland.   More and more see Northern Ireland as a place apart that they love and cherish, and appreciate having the financial support of 60 million people.   

    Republicans did not have to convince anyone of the merits of a United Ireland, they simply had to maintain the support they had within the Catholic community. Unfortunately for them that is diminishing and their dream is fading.  It will simply never happen.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    hahaha I lost interest when I saw that you wanted to accommodate us but couldn’t even bring yourself to utter the name of our country 😀

    “The Orange tradition is an Irish tradition and 
    the British identity of many people in the North must be accommodated”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Yes, we can agree on something. One strategic blunder after another by unionists, and still the Catholics in the six counties grow fonder and fonder of Northern Ireland, and a united ireland looks further and further away.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,061 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Can you back this up with some data?

    For instance:

    more and more Catholics are going off the idea of united Ireland. 

    Not that they 'will not vote for a UI tomorrow' as most polls ask.

    Specifically the claim 'they have gone off the idea'.

    Also this one seems more like wishful thinking but let's see some data if you have it,

    More and more see Northern Ireland as a place apart that they love and cherish,



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Here we go again. The same old same old lie.   I think you would find it very difficult to find many in Northern Ireland who would want to swap the NHS with the HSE.   

    This is probably the greatest evidence to put down your lie.  

    I work for an all-Island organisation and they signed up to Benenden Health a number of years ago.  It has just gone up to £15.50 per month per employee.  Most of us pay additional ourselves to cover family members.   Have a wee read at it?  Guaranteed same day GP consultation. Also Free scans, consultants, etc, etc. - NHS waiting time is more than three weeks.   Also lots of operations.  

    We worked very hard to get this extended to the southern colleagues, but the company is adamant that it will not work in the South because you guys pay for nearly everything and therefore they would be inundated.  My entire family are on it and I am the only one used a same day GP, and that was actually only for a second opinion.  No one uses it because they don’t need it because they can get to their own GP easily.   Some family members have used the quick scans and consultations.  

    If things were as bad as you try to tell us, then this company would be broke.  



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,061 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Pity your own consultants are leaving and GPs are looking south enviously:

    Robin Swann is hardly a Republican now is he?

    Earlier this year, then Northern Ireland health minister Robin Swann warned of "breakdown" in Northern Ireland’s health system, adding "every part of it is in profound distress."

    Health services across the UK and Ireland are coming under pressure, but experts regard Northern Ireland as "broken".

    NHS waiting lists in Northern Ireland are the worst in the UK, with patients waiting for more than half a million hospital appointments. For context, the population of Northern Ireland is 1.9 million.

    ….

    We have a system here which is broken," said Tom Black, a Derry-based GP.

    "The system in the Republic of Ireland is under stress and under strain, but we would regard it as coping."

    Dr Black added: "And it's certainly coping in terms of the waiting times of less than 12 months, whereas some of our waiting times are six to eight years.

    "I mean, you might as well not have a service if somebody tells you you're going to wait eight years for a treatment."

    Growing number of doctors in NI leaving NHS for HSE



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,951 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    It absolutely did not. It was an intermittent, ceremonial position for the most part and in no way was Ireland a unified political entity.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    So let me try and understand your position.  

    30 years ago, the majority Community in Northern Ireland accepted an agreement that set up a devolved government in Northern Ireland with a power sharing arrangement, because the minority community wanted their Irish identity recognised and protect protections against majority rule.  

    So you think that if the people of Northern Ireland voted to leave the United Kingdom and join a United Ireland, that the majority Irish community would not accept an agreement to have a devolved Northern around within the United Ireland, to acknowledge the British identity and protect the British people against majority rule?  

    Is this what you are really suggesting?  An interesting, if ridiculous, proposal.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,061 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    The GFA wasn’t about changing the constitution. It was about ending Unionist one party rule and for the first time recognising equality and parity of esteem for all identities.

    A Border Poll won’t be about re-partition.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,863 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    I am of the opinion that I would favour unification of Ireland, but not at all cost and provided that every little details is clear and agreed upon.

    I wouldn't want unification of Ireland at all cost, and that isn't only financial but also all the other potential differences that exist. I am also of the opinion that to date there are key differences where neither side would even to date accept that these differences exist.

    One would be the currency, the stronger pound vs the often considerably weaker Euro currency. ( enough to start a long debate)

    Military and defence, NATO membership vs the neutrality. In the ROI there not only insistence on neutrality but also the strong and continued lack of military spending, - no real navy, an air force without fighter jets, etc…. ( enough to start an even longer debate)

    Social services, the NHS vs the HSE and how they are run and financed. ( also a strong point)

    Schooling and the requirement of the Irish language ( same here)

    Changing names of streets and other locations, from something British to something Republican. ( and more so here…)

    The most pragmatic solution is that the partition of Ireland would continue to exist, accept the differences of attitudes and opinions as they are, but the border to remain as transparent as possible and solution is a permanent peaceful one.

    Post edited by tinytobe on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,960 ✭✭✭csirl


    A border poll is to provide for re-unification, not to create another partitioned entity. People need to accept that unification = unification.

    I think that when it happens it will be a damp squib from a biligerant unionist perspective. I can see a referendum in c.10years time passing by 70%+ - there's a silent majority there that exists outside hardline unionism (which is in significant decline). Younger generations in both communities are tired of religious sectarianism and its baggage - they want to live in a more progessive society.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,858 ✭✭✭standardg60


    ? For a start it's quoted directly from the PDF. Apart from that it's a silly hill to die on. I often interchange between NI/the North/ Ireland/the South depending on the context. You yourself referenced 'southern' colleagues.

    It doesn't mean anything disrespectful. Feigning 'offence' seems to be a national past time in NI.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    I am not precious about what anyone calls my country. I just thought it was ironic that you were talking about how our identity would be catered for in a UI and you used the term the north - and went to the trouble of putting a capital letter in front of it.
    I definitely live in the ‘north’ but what exactly do you mean by the ’North’.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,061 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Ever dawn on you tgat you are going to have to show a bit of respect too?

    You as an ideology don’t. Countless examples of demeaning any culture not yours.
    Unionist politicians just this week defending a disgusting racist and xenophobic banner warning off people and demeaning them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,217 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    Ah this is oversensitive boll*cks, Downcow.

    You don't use the full formal, 'Northern Ireland' yourself half the time. You regularly use OWC for example.

    I'm aware of the very specific and intentional Shinner, 'the North of Ireland' evasion of saying Northern Ireland, but there is absolutely zero malice in, 'the North' as shorthand. You're aware I have zero issue with calling home Northern Ireland, but when I'm talking about visiting, I'm talking about taking a trip, 'up North'. Absolutely nothing political about that whatsoever, it isn't even a Nationalist/Republican thing, I've heard countless Unionists refer to, 'the North' and, 'the South'.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,061 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I use them all too, the north, the North, NI, Northern Ireland etc



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    if you are talking about the banner in Moygashal, I absolutely condemn it without reservation.
    there was a racist and anti-Semitic banner carried by republicans on a pro- Palestine/hamas march today. Will you condemn it?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,061 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    You might, your politicians don’t.

    Don’t try to swing it to anyone else eiter. Not the first time your political ideology has disrespected. You are very quick to call foul. Take the plank out of your eye first maybe.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Absolutely I would say ‘up north’ and ‘down south’ etc. that is very different from someone saying our identity would be acknowledged, while in the same sentence using the term that most unionists regard as a Sinn Fein attempt to airbrush the country of NI (yes OWC) out of existence.
    I am not making a big deal about it. I thought it was worth note - you don’t. That’s ok.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    that wasn’t even a good deflection from my question. You seem to have a problem condemning racist anti-Semitic banners if carried by republicans.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,061 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    We aren’t discussing republicans and I saw no banner.

    I made a point about Unionism showing some respect before getting huffy themselves about a word



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,858 ✭✭✭standardg60


    Ffs you are being precious about it and continue to be!

    I use a capital N to actually be respectful as it refers to NI. What do you live in the 'north' of? Ireland or Northern Ireland?

    Do you want to be referred to as living in the north of Ireland or living in the North, ie Northern Ireland. Make up your mind!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    I am going to believe you and accept that you did not have any deeper intention with using the term ‘the North’.  

    If you use Northern Ireland regularly in your speech, then that is absolutely fine and I apologise if I misread your intention.  I guess that’s the benefit of this forum is that we can learn what the triggers are for each other..  can I guess that you also use both the terms Londonderry and Derry?   I make a special effort to do this.

    We have a large number of people in Northern Ireland who refused to say Northern Ireland because they can’t accept what happened in the Belfast agreement.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    You raised a racist banner out of the blue and I unequivalently condemned it.
    I have raised a anti-Semitic banner that appeared today ‘from the river to the sea’ and am quite interested whether you will unequivocally condemn it?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,061 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I haven't seen the banner you are talking about.

    You saw the one I was talking about.

    Tell me this are there SF, SDLP, ALLIANCE< PBP or Green party members supporting it by criticising it being removed if it is indeed racist>

    Because that is the issue here



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    I am not aware of anyone other than unionist politicians raising it. All the the parties you talk about seem to not have an issue with it.
    I don’t currently have a photo of the banner but here is the back of the Marshalls jacket which has the same anti-semetic statement.  Would you unequivocally condemn this?

    IMG_4506.jpeg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,061 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    If it is racist then I have no issue condemning it.

    Did you get what you salivating about at the march today, i.e. containing angry Unionists??

    The little village of Scarva today (population just 300) may give an insight into the challenges.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,217 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    The North absolutely isn't a term that most Unionists regard as SF's attempt to do anything, you've just said you use it yourself. Catch yourself on with this oversensitive nonsense.



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