Israel/Palestine Thread

I don't even know what you're talking about with the whole "people like you" thing!

Is this not a discussion forum, with rules around engaging with posts and not attacking posters? You've attacked me as a poster, and can't even discuss your reasoning as to why. Why did you post just to attack me?

I'm not attacking you, where did I do that?

here:

As always I admire your commitment to trying to engage with this lot,
but this one just seems to be intent on doubling down on the the 'just
asking questions'-style dog whistling routine.

You were talking about me to another poster. You're the one who made me "the main character" of your post. And you expected me to not pick up on this, or not respond to this. And you think I'm the one that's weird and borderline creepy!!! And you think I'm harassing you?!! I think you could do with a little self-reflection there. A top tip here: if you don't want posters to engage with your posts, don't post on a discussion forum about those posters.

I had been engaging with other posters about the content of posts, not about posters. Is there a reason you were not able to simply join the discussion if you had an issue with the content of my posts, which is, after all, the whole purpose of this website.

The only reason I'm engaging with you is to try to find out what your issue with me is, which you seem completely unable to articulate.

Per @Odhinn and recent news items, there appears to be increasing toxicity within Israeli society of late.

The aggression, particularly of the three years, and the attention of the world plus the looming ICJ ruling on Genocide must be major factors. I wouldn't say Israel is imploding but it's not a million miles away from it. The brain drain and younger Israelis leaving in droves (as posted here by others) is also symptomatic of a failing society.

Here's another distasteful example of that aggression, violence and lawbreaking (as ever, and totally in keeping with the Hasbara, it's not the fault of the anarchists but of the judiciary):

Harretz straplines (free by email):

Sixty-two suspects were arrested during a violent protest in front of the West Bank home of Israel's Supreme Court Deputy President Noam Sohlberg against the arrest of ultra-Orthodox who have ignored IDF draft orders.

The demonstrators came to Sohlberg's home in the settlement of Alon Shvut and tried to break into the property, vandalized the entrance to the house, smashed flowerpots and windows, and shattered the windows of his car. Some scattered leaflets in the street reading: "Sohlberg, take your hands off ultra-Orthodox Judaism." 

According to a police source, most of the detainees are refusing to cooperate and are attempting to obstruct the investigation. Some of them also hid their identity cards, exchanged them, or provided the details of other suspects.

Overnight into Thursday, the leaders of ultra-Orthodox Shas and Degel HaTorah parties jointly said they were"pained and shocked by the ongoing persecution and trampling of Torah students by Supreme Court justices." The parties added that they had warned "time and again that these steps" – meaning the enforcement of Israeli law against draft dodgers – "would lead to extremism and anarchy, and unfortunately, we are seeing those fears materialize."

The current savagery is that mind set let entirely off the leash.

If you could sum up the last 60 years of Israel in one sentence, this nails it. Spot on.

And before the jibes kick off, this is a tragedy for Israel and those Israelis who abhor a govt. and a military who are dragging them into the depths of depravity and hell.

Oh I agree with all of that.

Reform is absolutely necessary. It's based on the power structure of the world immediately post WWII, and the world is a very different place now. I just don't think it's likely to be reformed in the kind of way that would be most useful, realistically.

And yeah, I can't see the possibility of any more effective entity being created on a global scale. The UN is as good as it realistically gets. But its not good enough to be useful in a situation like the Israel/Palestine conflict. The UN presence in South Lebanon is little more than a speedbump in preventing either Hezbollah or Israel from going at each other, and hasn't been able to prevent the population of South Lebanon from bearing the consequences of that.

I'd actually say it's one of the few upsides for the Palestinians that no one is currently advocating for them to be put under UN protection. Any agreed resolution will hopefully be enforced by forces with much stronger rules of engagement.

Israel, and anyone else who chooses not to care.

In theory, with the abolition of the Veto, the UN could authorise the kind of force with adequate terms of engagement, that was sent to fight the Korean War. In practice, I doubt it would happen, as I couldn't see many countries being willing to provide the number of soldiers necessary to fight and die for such a force now.

Israel stands out for the number of resolutions. But the likes of Russia, China, and of course the USA, can completely ignore the UN as they choose.