Israel/Palestine Thread

Military intervention is the last resort though. We are hardly calling for Israel to stop bombing Gazans and asking for Israelis to be bombed.

All of the below could and should be used in an ideal world:

Diplomatic pressure and condemnation

Arms embargoes

Economic sanctions

Travel bans of officials

Cancellation of trade and cooperation agreements

Ban on settlement trading

International criminal investigations

UN resolutions

.....These are examples of what usually comes first in almost all examples of countries doing what Israel is doing, if countries would get their **** together and fulfill their international obligaitons.

These things also hurt Russia /Iran enormously but due to their vast size and resources, they can survive. It would cripple Israel and force them to stop fairly quickly imo.

I sort of get what you are saying (I think), but the UN is a forum of sovereign states, not a club exclusively for democracies - nor was it ever that.

If Russia/ China / Iran etc make a claim, that alone doesn't make it true, but neither does it make it false. The evidence has to stand or fall on its own merits

The fact authoritarian states are in the UN doesn't automatically make every criticism it makes wrong. It may leave a sour taste in your mouth and be highly hypocritical, but you can't ignore facts because a bad government happened to make it/ agree with it.

When the US tries to wander into that role they get utterly condemned from multiple sides

…and for very good reason too.

The problem with the US acting as "world policeman" as you put is A. Nobody asked them to fulfill that role and B. they did so out of their own self interest first and foremost, which often led to them propping up extremely violent regimes and participating in wars they had no business in and making things a million times worse as a result.

That, most certainly, is not the answer.

The only reason the UN still functions in any small way is because three democracies - UK, France and the US - hold a veto.

Without the vetoes, and a simple majority vote, authoritarian states would vote away every human right.

I've told you twice before. I have absolutely no interest in what you say.

Don't bother replying to my posts. I don't read your crap.

Of course. All countries act in their own interest. It's their
government's job to do so. The US will always act in their self
interest. Just like Ireland.

There's self interest and then there's self interest. I don't recall Ireland going around toppling democratically elected governments and then installing tin pot dictators who play ball.

The problem here is that a powerless UN is not the answer either.

It is, however, the best answer we have at present. Does it need reform? Of course.

Dissolving it would be chaos and really throw the globe to the wolves. That's not any kind of alternative worth even contemplating unless you're a psychopath.

Also, it completely neglects all of the good work that the UN has done since its inception in 1945.

The UN isn't perfect and can be lacking. Nobody is saying that it isn't. But without a viable and workable alternative, we're into Brexit levels of abandonment. Actually, it would be much worse.

Ah ok get what you mean

I wasn't talking to you. You might have missed the part where I wasn't talking to you, but just to clarify - I wasn't talking to you.

Yeah I suppose I was, get over yourself.