Kilkenny GAA Thread

I think Mullaly or Dowling for me as the next manager, although we're doing a lot of speculating when Lyng could be staying on.

Henry, for me, hasn't done enough. He took on a Ballyhale team that had been on the road a few years but was gaining a young Eoin Cody and Adrian Mullen. He won a few titles with them but even after he left they continued to win. Unless you're part of that team, it's hard to know if it was right place right time for him.

He then went to Thomastown, a team that was definitely underperforming and didn't get up from intermediate, but did so the following year. It's very possible that Henry had laid the foundation for that, but again it's hard to judge from the outside on that one.

Galway was a disaster. Much like the position that Kilkenny find themselves in, Galway needed a rebuild and Henry was tasked with overseeing it but was unsuccessful. The issue here may have been his lack of familiarity with the Galway club hurling scene, but that's really where he needed to get the backroom team correct, getting in a few Galway lads to help him.

His second stint with Ballyhale has also been fruitful. This time he's taken a team where many of the players are a bit older, and in some cases in their prime and got them flying it again.

Finally, the u20s, I actually think it's hard to judge him on this team because they were poor at minor a few years ago. The season is so short now that developing them any further is a difficult task when games start coming thick and fast from April onwards. However, the lack of energy and fight was a worry and that's the thing that stood out to me. I think leave him there for his 3 years, and let's see how he goes with teams we're expecting more from.

So my issues with Henry, who as a hurler and leader on the pitch was absolutely second to none, are:

• His track record of bringing players through isn't great - this is something we desperately need right now
• Other than with Ballyhale, his own club, his teams have seemed flat. Is he not getting them motivated?
• Ballyhale bias - this might not be the case but he spoke earlier in the year about how Richie Reid was getting a raw deal being dropped from the starting line up. I just felt that was a bit of Ballyhale tinted glasses in that situation and I'd worry that he'd have that little bit of bias towards his old teammates and lads he managed. He'd probably end up convincing TJ and Richie to stay on another year

I'm not saying I wouldn't back him, the idea of Henry at the helm sounds like a match made in heaven as a Kilkenny fan, but there are questions around whether he's the right man at this time.

Right now, as many of you feel, it seems like a time to get Dowling or Mullaly in, but whoever we get in should have the full backing from all of us. Most important thing right now is to get it all sorted and in place before the first round of the club leagues.

No manager whoever it is cant be kept on if you don't get in the 1st 3 in leinster. 5 matches with 3 places up for grabs.you just have 2 qualify.

I thought Henry did very well with the shamrocks at that time and contrary to belief he wasn’t handed a winning team, I’m open to been corrected.

An able and competent director of underage hurling given the tools (which could be misunderstood) to do everything to drag us out of the abyss.

I think the minors found it hard to rise after the disappointment of the Leinster Final, Wexford should have beaten Cork the week before and I don't think we are that far behind either, a flat performnce after putting in such a massive performance in the leinster final isn't that uncommon from such young players. Personally I think Gordan Byrne and his back room team have done a good job, lets not forget there were plenty of higher profile managers that turned down the chance to take over this team as they didn't see muchchance of success.

On the next chairman, Jim Fennelly would rightly be the bookies favourite as vice-chairman but I know that 2 other people from the CB management committee who have indicated they will also stand for chairperson, one of whom wouldn't be a terrible appointment, the other probably would! If that is the case, it wouldn't be a certainty that Fennelly get's the job and to be 100% honest if an outsider (i.e someone not from the CB) stood they would more than likely win. A big problem with these things is that they aren't discussed enough at club level and it's often left to the delegates on the night to decide who they vote for and this is usually how the staus quo is kept in. If people want change they need to start within there own clubs abnd voice their concerns to CB delegates and club chair and secretaries who will be the ones in voting and dealing with the CB! If a suitable candidate could be found they could be in as early as December, but as I've said previously I'd have massive doubt's as to whether this will happen. Last December 12 month's Nicky Brennan was given the honor of being voted in as an honary president of Kilkenny GAA, after the motion was passed he said a few words and in fairness to him I think he hit the nail on the head with what he said, he said that as clubs we are too quiet and accept what is happening too much, he said as a club base, as this is where the power should be, we need to be more vocal and more willing to challenge the CB on what is happening. I'm not saying we need to get Nicky in as chairman or anything but I think his message should be listened too and he maybe might be a good point of contact for an organised challenge to get new faces elected into the board.

I think if you read it again you will realise the author was quoting his High St acquaintance (who I know well and could identify from the quotes in the article) and this is very much something he (the acquaintance) would say about Tipp, like it or not.

Like everyone I'm sure PM has biases and being a Kilkenny man he likely has no great love for Tipperary when facing Kilkenny. However from chats I would have with PM he is very even handed in his assessments of all counties. He loves the game and has great admiration for great exponents of the game regardless of their place of birth. He is equally as harsh towards Kilkenny as he might be to others and I would say what you read from him is his honest assessment of a county. You might not agree with it, you might think he has an axe to grind but I find he rarely does. He is honest in what he thinks and admires great players and teams. If he criticise Tipperary there will likely be truth to it whether you like hearing from a Kilkenny man is another matter.

Competitiveness. There is jeopardy in every competition in Munster, whether it be schools or intercounty. That competitiveness, that jeopardy does not exist in Leinster. Our minors beat Westmeath and Dublin and got to a Leinster final. Our U20s beat Kildare, Offaly and Dublin and got to a Leinster final. Kierans stroll through all their Leinster competitions. At the highest levels they're not getting enough exposure to intense games that actually mean anything. Most games in the U20 Munster championship are closely fought so even if teams don't get out of Munster their players have been exposed to high pressure, intense games and it will benefit them in the long run.

Even at underage club level Roinn A is generally dominated by Dicksboro and the Village who comfortably stroll through most of their games. Maybe this club domination is commonplace in other counties at underage as well with town teams, I don't know.

The previous minor management made serious mistakes and were lacking in lots of areas. I'd fairly certain we left definitely 1 and possibly 2 All Irelands behind us that we should have won, and likely would have won had management been better prepared and better equipped. By the way you also conveniently ignored my original post where I was plenty critical about this years 20's.

My issue with this years minor management was solely their appointment, not the people themselves. I had no issue with the 20's appointment. That's the point you're missing here.

Look this on the county board not them. I said this at the time that it was extremely underwhelming. We had a chance to properly reset at Minor and U20 and we appeared to do that at U20 with a statement management group. I honestly thought we were starting to realise what it takes to get back to being a seriously competitive hurling county.
Unfortunately we did the opposite at minor. We appointed relative unknowns, with as far as I can see, minimal track record and directly from an extremely flawed squads system. That's not good enough for a county of our standing, and it didn't and doesn't send the message that we are serious about getting out of this rut.

People have mentioned Tom Mullally and Brian Dowling and both are rated as serious coaches. Why didn't the county board bend over backwards to get either or both of those men in? Or Noel Doherty who left the senior set up? Tommy Walsh, Richie Power, David Herity are all coaching currently to name but a few. There are plenty of better options out there but like Mick Fennellys role, we did the handy thing and appointed from within. If we keep accepting average we will continue to be average.

Thats why we can't get the next senior management appointment wrong. It should be an extremely exhaustive process and no stone should be left unturned

as I’ve said previously the minors were terribly disappointed losing that lead and had to of affected them with such a short turnaround between games and must have been hardworking for the management to instill belief into them. Where most posters here agreed that they made huge progress from U16, but as everyone knows it’s hard to talk to young lads.

Two years ago we were bet by Danesfort and Castlecomer on the same day at U14 and U 16 county finals I didn’t like been bet twice in the one day but there was the bigger picture this showed that a few country teams were well able to be up there with the best.

I know many in Wexford who would love Tom Mullally as our new manager, I don't see him taking or being interested in the job though to be honest.

As I said the other day, Leinster competitiveness really concerns me and the minors is another example. Wexford should have beaten Cork last Sunday but Cork got 2-3 or something in the last 10 minutes. As the poster above says, everything in Munster is fought tooth and nail for. In Leinster, I think everything has become too lax and the vibe is "we have to give everybody a chance". Hurling promotion can't be entirely our responsibility, but how we square that circle I don't know. We want Kildare, Offaly, Westmeath, etc - BUT if its hurting our competitiveness when it gets to national competitions and games v Munster teams, we can't be expected to shoulder all the burden.

Part of the problem we have is the fact that Leinster is nowhere near as competitive as Munster. Our lads are playing games and then ending up facing a different level altogether when we play Munster sides. In terms of intensity and quality. Happened our 20's and minors last year and our minors this year. Munster teams have had 4 or 5 hard games in a much more competitive environment.
They should be opening up the underage competitions completely. It would be an opportunity as well to start the discussion for the same process in the senior.

someone you mentioned.that’s another problem, was she a member of the county board ? You see KK we have to be so careful saying anything but theses present to do what they want ( Donald Trump)

The decline of Leinster hurling over the last 30 years is sad to witness.

From 1887 to 1950 Kilkenny and to a lesser extent Dublin, 6 All Ireland hurling titles, were the 2 main counties in the province. Laois and Wexford were the only other Leinster counties to win All Irelands in this period, 1915 and 1910 respectively.

From 1950 to 1979 both Wexford and Kilkenny held their own winning All Irelands and taking on Munster teams.

In the 1980s and 90s Offaly joined Kilkenny and Wexford as the 3 strongest teams in the province. The mid to late 90s was the high point for Leinster hurling when the 3 aforementioned counties could beat the best in Munster.

Offaly hurling declined first. From 2001 there was almost a vertical dip. They shipped big defeats in the All Ireland qualifiers, like v Tipp in 2002. Small hurling base, it was inevitable. Wexford still had a bit of a kick in the early 2000s. They beat Limerick in a 2001 All Ireland QF. They drew with Cork in a memorable All Ireland semi in 2003. But from 2005 on declined.

For 10-11, probably 25 years, Kilkenny were the only county in Leinster capable of winning the All Ireland. How they turned up in All Ireland semi finals at full tilt after a saunter through Leinster, God only knows. Munster teams weren't as 'professional' as they've become since Limerick emerged in 2018. Also Kilkenny had a dream generation and management. But for me the key seems to be Kilkenny haven't moved up that notch to Munster team's prep since 2018, for whatever reason.

Dublin preformed admirably in the 2011 and 2013 All Ireland semis. But that team didn't look capable of winning an All Ireland. They've had once off wins since and the jury is out on this year v Munster opposition. Wexford probably had the best chance of a team, bar Kilkenny, of winning an All Ireland in 2019.

For 25 years, bar the odd year as mentioned, Kilkenny have carried the can for Leinster alone. A situation like the 1990s with 3 solid Leinster teams is rare. I don't know where to start re. rising the standard in Leinster. All bar Kerry in Munster are hurling strongholds.

Leinster has really only 1. Wexford, Dublin, Offaly, Westmeath, Laois, Carlow, Kildare, Meath are more football than hurling counties. Counties with big populations like Louth and Wicklow are well down the divisions. Longford all football. It's hard to see hurling advance in counties with no tradition of it. That's why Laois, Offaly, Wexford, Antrim etc are so important for some sort of growth of the game. I didn't mention Galway as I'm really only looking at the actual province.

lyng gone??