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Orange is the new Burke

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,606 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    There seems to be a difficulty in understanding he has the choice to leave.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,443 ✭✭✭Westernview


    Theres a difficulty in understanding that he has a choice to leave and won't agree to the terms of leaving. What's your solution other than to keep him there with the cost and reserves that entails?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,606 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    Well that's exactly what makes him different to other prisoners. He has the choice to leave.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,443 ✭✭✭Westernview


    So what? Do you think he should be released when he won't agree to stay away from the school? Until he agrees that he is pretty much the same as any other prisoner.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 46,244 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    You contradicted me and then followed up with a post agreeing with me? Make up your mind! 🙄

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,443 ✭✭✭Westernview


    I didn't contradict anyone. He is a prisoner who cant be released until he agrees to terms and is therefore a prisoner with associated costs as any other.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,065 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    "He is a prisoner who cant be released until he agrees to terms and is therefore a prisoner with associated costs as any other."

    Case was adjourned until Wed next, school broke up on Friday, so he'll probably be released from prison on Wed. He'll have no business back at school, so he can join the rest of the mob on their campaigns until Sept,. Then he'll be back outside the school gates again, maybe he'll not trespass, but he'll be back there, don't worry



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,443 ✭✭✭Westernview


    I cant understand the logic of letting him out at all. The actions of the others in Galway last week should be enough of a warning.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 46,244 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    He is a prisoner who can be released once he purges his contempt. Nobody else in prison has the ability to open their own prison door and walk out. That is why he is different.

    A prisoner who is released and who chooses to commit another crime is not the same as Burke who refuses to admit the truth as to why he was (and still is) incarcerated

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,443 ✭✭✭Westernview


    It all amounts to the same thing in terms of the cost of keeping them in jail, which is what ive been saying all along. Its completely irrelevant whether he has a choice or doesn't. Bemoaning the cost of having one prisoner over the other makes no sense and I dont know why people here focus on it.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 335 ✭✭goldsparkle


    He's the only one self imprisoning himself for his own agenda.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 323 ✭✭Resplendent Moose


    It's very relevant because the means of stopping incurring the cost is entirely in his own hands.

    A personal invitation to dance, as Nero plays for the last time
    Tonight you will mix with the prophets without honour...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 37,873 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    The costs of his imprisonment, all the trials etc, so far that has been a bigger issue because it was so unnecessary and down purely to his refusal to obey court orders, and how he dragged the arse out of every judgement, constantly requesting recusals, etc.

    However, if he's now released, the costs become less important, because if he's arrested for trespassing at the school, it's a straight-up criminal charge like every other criminal act. No purging of contempt or waiting for decisions from appeals about his employment and stuff.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 46,244 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    It is not the same thing. One is there serving a fixed length punishment for a criminal offence. They cannot leave until their time has been served as it is a punishment for said crime.

    Burke is making a deliberate choice to occupy a prison space in some deluded pretence to his audience that his incarceration is related to his beliefs. Burke is free to leave at any point once he purges his contempt for the court, an act he continues to choose not to do.

    Burke is choosing to cost the taxpayers money with his protest whereas most criminals are in prison out of circumstance and it can be very difficult for them to escape that life

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,443 ✭✭✭Westernview


    Its a well know fact that many prisoners can increase the likelihood of getting early release for lesser crimes with good behaviour. There are a number of mechanisms for this to happen.

    Yes the 'curcumstance' of many prisoners leads to them ending up in prison but many reform themselves and get early release as I mentioned above, whilst others refuse to/are unable to change and Burke is in that category. Id like if he never saw the light of day again if he wont change and thats why I see him the same as other unrepetant prisoners.

    I get a sense that people think he is wasting prison resources because he is from a middle class, highly educated family. To me he is just an odious menace to society and therefore not in a category of wasting resources. Its money well spent to keep him incarcerated.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 46,244 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    I get a sense that people think he is wasting prison resources because he is from a middle class, highly educated family.

    Not one person has said that here. Anyhow, it does seem rather pointless trying to discuss something with you so I'm out!

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,594 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    A huge number of persons in prison here are not doing time on the same basis that EB is. He's a religious ideology-driven inmate of our civil prison system who's chosen the hill he wants to die on. The key to his release is in his sole control, under the guidance of his family so he's not the same as any other prisoner.

    Any person who sees EB as being in prison on the same basis as most other prisoners and liable for early release for good behaviour is misunderstanding [for whatever reason-ing] EB's situation. Until EB accepts that he is as liable as any other citizen here to our laws, he gets to stay put in prison. He's not a naughty middle class boy, he's a twat.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 265 ✭✭BestWestern


    Why should Enoch allowed out in the summer? We all know his reoffending rate is 100%.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,443 ✭✭✭Westernview


    Its irrevelent what the specifics are for him being there.

    Im pushing back against the idea that he is a special case in terms of terms of taking up prison space. He isnt. He has been through the courts like every other prisoner and deserves to be there. We could go through the specifices of every single prisoner and compare them and it wouldnt matter. They are all there for a reason and all must be catered for. I've no interest in this talk anymore of him walking out of his own accord. He won't so I just see him as an another inmate. Every inmate is wasting public money but thats the system we have.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 323 ✭✭Resplendent Moose


    He's not like every other prisoner though. He's been in prison for Civil Contempt, not Criminal Contempt, and the purpose of his imprisonment is coercive, not punitive.

    The fact that you keep on bringing this up is suspicious but I'm going to apply Hanlon's Razor, assume that you were unaware of the distinction, and trust that you'll correct yourself and let the matter drop now that you've had it clarified.

    A personal invitation to dance, as Nero plays for the last time
    Tonight you will mix with the prophets without honour...



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,443 ✭✭✭Westernview


    How many times do I have to say that I fully understand the reason he is there and yhe details of his case.

    I cant stand the guy but its time to move on from the idea that he is wasting prison space. Hes not going to change. He deserves to be there. Theres no alternative.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,503 ✭✭✭youtheman


    I agree. I thought he has to purge his contempt before he is allowed out ! And that means giving an undertaking that he will not attend the school. Reasons for previous releases (i.e. he had to attend to legal matters, plus he was also still on the payroll, no longer apply).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,594 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    I have no doubt that EB and the other Burkes would hotly differ with your opinion that the specific reason he is in prison is irrelevant, that he does see himself as a special case. I have no doubt that you are aware of his reasoning and point of view and that he would think your view of his presence in prison is irrelevant. I just cant see you debating with him on his choices.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,852 ✭✭✭scottser


    Now that he's been properly sacked, Wilsons will no doubt apply and get a barring order fairly swiftly. Once that's in place they'll release him and the Burkes will have to try a different tack from protesting at the school.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,153 ✭✭✭Pentecost


    He and they can still protest outside the gates to their hearts' content. Not like most of them have anything better to do.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 41,974 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    That's a load of incredibly simplistic bollox

    How do you explain that northern France was more industrialised than southern. Both catholic

    At the same time Wilberforce was doing his thing, fellow protestants in the southern USA were interpreting the same book to justify what they were doing

    The bible does explicitly endorse the keeping of slaves, after all - as long as you don't kill them.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra
    I'm raptured by the joy of it all



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 41,974 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    He's not the same as any other prisoner, any other prisoner has a release date.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra
    I'm raptured by the joy of it all



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,202 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    If the court accepts that he is not going to change his behaviour irrespective of the time he spends in prison then it needs to release him and find another avenue to coerce him into compliance. Indeed if there was even the slightest hint that such view was already formed he would likely be able to launch the mother of all compensation claims for false imprisonment. He is not there for punishment as he has not been arrested, charged or convicted for any crime.


    And to be clear, I don’t think he should have been let out for the holidays previously.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 265 ✭✭BestWestern


    He is there for punishment for continually breaching a court order. If he agrees to not breach it, he is free to go. In effect, he is imprisoning himself.

    How can he sue for false imprisonment because he freely admits he will reoffend?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 323 ✭✭Resplendent Moose


    He's not there for punishment, that is a lie and furthermore you know it's a lie because you've been told so, and given citations and links.

    A personal invitation to dance, as Nero plays for the last time
    Tonight you will mix with the prophets without honour...



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