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Tesla Talk 2

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 35,672 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    You're not a public body so your analogy is mute.

    These regulatory bodies of any shape whether they are automotive, building , food , whatever are not meant to express opinion whatsoever. I know you know this.

    They are supposed to say something has passed their testing procedures or not. It's the reason they have ratings and objective tests. Whether it's an RFP for procurement or approval for a system or solution . Commerical opinion is left out of the results.

    It's a small point overall in the scheme of this. But something that did stand out from your posts yesterday hence it drew my attention.

    I'd be keen for you to show similar language for lets say BMW or Mercedes level 3 systems elsewhere in Europe ? Did they get express commerical approval language indicating how good they were against their competition? Since this is the done thing in your eyes.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 6,595 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    Not in the case where they're justifying why an exemption to current technical regulations should be allowed.

    This is not a simple case of is System A compliant.
    This is a case of System A is not compliant, but we believe that System A should still be approved because XXXX.

    It's a very common thing in any regulated industry or compliance operation for there to be a set of rules, and a process whereby exceptions can be made, in my experience exemptions always require justification.

    Did they get express commerical approval language indicating how good they were against their competition? Since this is the done thing in your eyes.

    That's not in the RDW statement. It's saying it's better than other systems, not better than all other systems by their competition.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 35,672 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    I can categorically guarantee you a half decent litigator would be able to on behalf of another manufacturer have that statement retracted and reworded with very little effort or push back.

    Il give you a proper and appropriate analogy, not like your boards sub forum one.

    Let's say SEAT came in next month and passed all the same tests and exceptions that Tesla did. Seat get a pass statement and RDW doesn't give any commerical opinion on their rating in the market. So they ask for one and they want one. But RDW simply say that systems better though. Yet the both pass the exact same tests like for like.

    What would be wrong here ? And do you understand why commercial opinons are not given. This isn't the norm at all. Like at all.

    As I said before it's a small point I'm making but it is as a response to a quote you made. It's abnormal behavior and it ropes the regulatory body into all sorts of potential problems. These things can be used to advertise and market products there's a serious financial value attached to wording as such its ethically avoided.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 6,595 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    RDW would also be required for the SEAT approval to give a justification why the exemption is merited and that they believe the SEAT system is at least as good as systems that meet the relevant UNECE regulations.

    Whether that results in a published press release would no doubt depend on how many media enquiries they were fielding on the subject matter.

    Personally I don't see "better than other systems" vs "at least as good as allowed systems" as a commercial validation. I would see it as minimum standard to allow any non compliant system to justify an exemption process.

    We can agree to disagree on that one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 35,672 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    We can agree to disagree all we like. But regulatory bodies do not and also cannot infer favoritism. You're even implying they infered favoritism with your wording. And you are claiming that's allowed.

    It's not, neither in a ratings and regulations passing nor in a public RFP process. It's simply not allowed. I've been involved in dozens.



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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 6,595 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    That's your position, and my posistion is that they haven't.

    That's what agree to disagree means, you think they've done thing and I think they haven't, we're not going to convince each otherwise.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 35,672 ✭✭✭✭listermint




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,382 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    Maybe it's just the best thing since sliced bread and they can't contain their enthusiasm, the Dutch are like that ....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,873 ✭✭✭John arse




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 35,672 ✭✭✭✭listermint




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,107 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    I'm sitting here with my back ripping in pain while I wait on some mixer for my whiskey to ease it off and have an eased night.

    Yet that pain is still preferable to reading the last 2 pages of word play and accusations and thankless bad faith posting dressed as concern that has plagued this thread for longer than I care to remember. I'm taking a break from here before I post something that earns me a ban ffs!

    Stay Free



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,306 ✭✭✭cunnifferous


    Ah I don't know. I kind of enjoy the back and forth. It can get a bit tedious at times but it's mostly non-personal but vigorous debate. Elon carries a huge amount of myth and exaggeration around with him and loves being the center of attention so it's no mystery that it provokes a backlash in some people. (Wasn't someone here talking about how all the rocket scientists at SpaceX have commented on how super smart he is and understands all the physics involved 🤣) That kind of stuff is always going to invite ridicule. The whole FSD debate id like to leave it behind though and go with 'time will tell'.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,579 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    it will be interesting to se elf any alterations are required in getting it approved in a RHD country as all countries in Europe so far are LHD.

    If it gets approved in the UK, the IRL should not be far behind.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭JOL1


    Post Brexit the UK needs its own validation and approval seperate to the EU. Indicative timelines seems to put this behind other EU countries

    Screenshot 2026-05-30 at 22.42.25.png


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,579 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Maybe we’ll get something approved before the UK for once then!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 35,672 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Interesting question actually. Definitely potential hadn't considered it. Perhaps the Australian work eased that question.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 35,672 ✭✭✭✭listermint




  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,579 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    V13 is what’s on the Australian cars (RHD). What version is on the FSD released in The EU countries so far, V14 or higher?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 61,076 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    The NL cars got 14.2.2.5, a bit behind the USA

    "Make no mistake. The days of the internal combustion engine are definitely numbered" - Quentin Willson, 1997



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 370 ✭✭prosaic




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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,579 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    China have approved FSD. Supposedly.
    Or at least some form of it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 378 ✭✭evftw


    1000053055.jpg

    https://eu-evs.com/bestSellers/ALL_MONTHLY/Brands/Month/2026/5

    Maybe that Berlin factory doesn't need to close then after all. (Edit: the link appeared dead so attached a pic of the current standings instead).

    The data updates dynamically once more sales figures gets published.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,382 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭JOL1


    Never in doubt about remaining open. It serves a strategic positioning for wider European (EU) market, represents a large capital investment and is key to addressing risks with supply chain and(or) unpredictable changes in global tariffs. A strong rebound in European sales across many jurisdictions



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 378 ✭✭evftw


    Waiting for a Reuters article about this soon. ;-)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 378 ✭✭evftw


    My comment was directed to some individuals who predicted that Tesla will close the European factory as the sales were going to be pretty much 0 in Europe.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 35,672 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Are they in the room ? Or did you bump into them in the pub with two pints in their hand?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 378 ✭✭evftw


    Yea, the meet didn't go totally without a spillage.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 442 ✭✭tppytoppy


    Tesla model 3 and Y were 4th and 5th best selling cars in Germany in May but 83% of them were RWD models. This suggests that Tesla is only keeping volumes up through low prices combined with state incentives which gives buyers an entry to the market along with discounted finance. If Tesla want to pass on the savings of inhouse 4680 production to customers in the future then so much the better but Tesla are going to loose a lot of sales to M1E vehicles manufactured in Europe such as top of the line ID polo cross as the manufacturers are willing to discount and lease cheap tp get the 130% carbon credit.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,382 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    Sales of the id4 must be about to collapse as well using that logic.



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