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Ireland vs Israel - To play or not to play, that is the question Read OP for Mod Warning

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,383 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    Good grief dmc never gunna answer the question then no?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 61,055 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Ian O’Doherty sums up our hypocrisy and weird Israel obsession perfectly


    “There is something wrong with this country and last night was a perfect example.
    Ireland played a slave state with a shocking human rights record and Irish fans protested- against Israel, who weren't even playing.
    This level of obsession is deeply stupid and genuinely sinister.”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,474 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Ah sorry PJ. No, I don't fantasise about sodomy. It's not one of my predilections.

    But I've made it clear that FIFA must ban Israel or they can correctly be called out for double standards for banning Russia (collective punishment).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,396 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    Nope thats quite clearly not what i said.

    You stated FIFA banned Russia. I think the context is important, FIFA along with practically everyone else banned Russia. Within a week. Some took action the very same day Russia attacked Ukraine such as the HAAS formula one team (An American Team) who removed the the russian title sponsor livery from its trucks and Car while in Bahrain.

    Has anyone done likewise with Israel?

    FIFA/UEFA banning Israel would be an outlier versus the rest of the world ATM. Israel sent a team to the Paris olympics in 2024 being a Prime example. Nobody demanded the Irish olympians boycott those games because they would have had to share a world stage with Israeli's.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,474 ✭✭✭dmcdona



    Its not like FIFA were an outlier here.

    FIFA banned Russia. That is collective punishment.

    To not ban Israel because it would be "collective punishment" is hypocrisy.

    Sounds to me like you're either saying there is no problem with FIFA collectively punishing Russian footballers, or FIFA had no choice but to follow everyone else and ban Russia. Which one is it (or are there additional reasons for FIFA's hypocrisy?)



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,396 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    This is a description of the nation you played yesterday:

    Same-sex relationships illegal 
    Death penalty in place for apostasy (leaving Islam)
    Same-sex acts between Muslim men are punishable by death.
    Criticising the head or the state can lead to prison e.g. A Qatari poet given llife sentence for a poem critical of the government

    Migrant worker treatment and deaths on World Cup construction projects - basically slavery

    There should be some soul-searching as to why the Israeli team is being singled out for attention. I would be very keen to see a list of the national teams that you guys think Ireland should refuse to play against.

    Would North Korea even make the list?
    Join the dots!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,396 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    Russia, THE NATION, were banned from practically everything on the sporting front, bar a few athletes competing under the neutral banner. Russian footballers are still playing for clubs outside of Russia AFAIK. But Russia as a nation do not compete.

    Israel have been banned from nothing.

    Your "collective" is very vague. The collective banning of Russia was largely sports wide. And it was political.

    Ive no problem with sporting bodies (FIFA UEFA, IOC etc) making those decisions. Thats their prerogative.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,574 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    That might have been true at first but they are well past that now. They are all the same now..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,574 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Ireland shouldn't need a sporting body to tell them how to think, or know the difference between wrong or right.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,396 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    They don't, but the sporting body in question, UEFA, provides the income that the FAI requires to pay the bills.

    People expect the FAI to be the fall guys, to "make a stand" yet those same people will not do the same in their own lives. And people turn up at a game v Qatar to protest the Israel game. Hypocrisy of the tallest order.

    The FAI, just because they decide they have to fulfil their fixtures as determined by UEFA draw doesn't mean they support or condone the Israeli state actions.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,474 ✭✭✭dmcdona




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,574 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    FAI and UEFA are solely focused on lining their pockets. Not sport. This is more important than money.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,960 ✭✭✭csirl


    To those who thing Israel should be banned because some Israeli football players served in the IDF etc etc

    Do you thing Ireland should be banned from sport because some of those convicted in our Central Criminal Court for murder or rape have been members of the FAI (and other sports bodies)?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,383 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    So you aren't fantasising about Israeli footballers committing sodomy, I suppose thats as close as you will go to admitting you have no proof any of the Israel Football Team have committed war crimes.

    Nice dodging attempt all the same you had backed yourself into a corner.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,729 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    yet those same people will not do the same in their own lives.

    image.png

    This is a long debunked strategy used to try to get people to shut up. Usually used by people who don't understand what it is the argument that is being made.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,396 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    Again, its all relative. Money is important to everyone. Thats reality. The FAI have obligations to the people they employ. UEFA Pay the bills basically.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,396 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    Except it hasn't been debunked. Even the Taoiseach says the boycott would achieve nothing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,729 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Another example of how you misunderstand the argument being made. Thank you for proving my point so quickly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,396 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    Your point is nonsense though. You want a selective boycott so long as it doesn't impact on your life.

    Its a bit like the Dublin footballers refusing interviews if Allianz is on the media board, but if they got a serious injury playing for Dublin they would take the money from the income protection insurance Allianz provides for them.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,729 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    You want a selective boycott so long as it doesn't impact on your life.

    Wrong.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,396 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,741 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    Yes i did call you out with a relevant observation pertaining to the thread in light of a previous complaint you made. It was not a personalied remark in that sense.

    With this in mind in future complain about people not sticking to the thread title regardless of what their position is, otherwise it indicates you you don't mind off topic posts so long as they are in agreement with your views.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,741 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    You previously said no Athletes served in a IDF combat unit. When this was shown to be a mistake or deliberate omission on your part, you failed to acknowledge it. Can you point out where he specifically said those Israeli Athletes he mentioned have committed war crimes? What i have seen him say is that IDF combat units have committed war crimes- which is a rather different matter.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,383 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    Oh so you are speaking on their behalf now. Ok then yes thats all they keep saying despite it being a different matter.

    The fact that when asked if any footballers commited crimes they just respond with the IDF commited crimes says a lot but is typical non answer to expect, it is a different answer to a question no one asked. But it is the answer to the question they want to be asked so they answer that instead.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,574 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Not true. Many people and sports have chosen integrity over money.

    The govt could choose to finance a shortfall.

    Reality is the sport and Govt have turned their back on this one. No back bone.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,574 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    It's irrelevant. This is a nation that the international community needs to sanction to bring back to sanity.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,396 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    The government cannot choose to fill a financial gap to facilitate a boycott as thats political interference which will get the FAI banned by UEFA/FIFA.

    And the Government should not be doing that regardless. Otherwise where does it end?

    The FAI have debts of 40m. The Nations league is worth somewhere in the region of €20-25m (income for the year is usually around €60m) between three homes games and TV rights. They simply cannot sacrifice that money.

    You may not like it , but Money is important. Its an essential part of life.

    The Dunnes thing is irrelevant. That was people with no real responsibilities in life making a decision that impacted on nobody but themselves. I dont think they make the same decision if they were 10 years older with a mortgage and a family to provide for.

    The government also have to view the bigger picture. There is a significant volume of MNC jobs in this country which could be jeopardized (why do you think the OTB was watered down to be largely pointless now).

    irish government responsibility is to Ireland and its citizens first and foremost.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,040 ✭✭✭greyday


    Looks like the home game will be played outside Ireland with no fans allowed.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,659 ✭✭✭crossman47


    I agree about the FAI's need for money. In addition, not playing the game will not have any effect on Israel. They already regard Ireland as a viviously anti semetic country and will just regard this as par for the course. They will just up their painting of us as anti semetic.

    I know most campaigners are against the policy of the Israeli government and not anti semetic as such but I feel the singling out of Israel says differently and I have certainly heard some vile comments about jews in recent times.There is a seam of anti semetism running through this country.



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