Is Irelands neutrality stance in WW2 unfairly criticized? (see Mod note 217)

The Canadian cartoonist, which you seem to think is some kind of reliable source on Axis reports, was obviously unaware of how the encryption of Axis reports from Ireland was compromised by Hayes and Irish Military Intelligence. Evidently you too were unaware.

At this stage many things about Ireland's neutrality, the political and military situation of the pre-war and WW2 years have been explained to you. You even tried to portray Lord Haw Haw as a reliable source. All this talk of "us" and neutrality suggests that you are not really serious about discussing the issue and merely want to promote your own agenda as truth despite the historical facts not supporting you.

And when you interjected to scold me that what I said was 'subjective' you 'implied' their was an objective way of looking at it that didn't excuse Dev. You didn't say that clearly of course, it was clear you were scolding though.


Yes somebody being 'unfairly critical' could definitely pretend to objectively come to the view they decided to do nothing. The fact is that that government did quite a lot to keep us out of a war that had the potential to destroy the fledgling state.
They didn't do what The British and US etc wanted them to do, that is correct and that seems to be why some folk still want to vent their spleens about it.

They were punished for deserting the Irish army not for joining the British Army. The current punishment for desertion in the Irish army is up to 2 years imprisonment and discharge with disgrace. The Eagle squadrons were not members of the USAAF and were not deserters. The only one equating them is you.

Wrong. I said in my post a week ago they were volunteers. I gave the post number as proof. Why do you lie about me.

What is interesting is how the returning volunteers were treated. In America they were valued, sometimes even promoted in their air force due to their experience. Here returning volunteers were often discriminated against, shunned, by a population who were kept ignorant about the war by the government. The Nazi camps were seen as British propaganda. Dev was the first official holocaust denier influencer.

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Wrong. I said in my post a week ago they were volunteers. I gave the post number as proof. Why do you lie about me.

The brass neck.

This is you @Francis McM post 1201

I agree the US was late to the war, same as in WW1. All they did before Pearl harbour was send a few Eagle squadrons to Britain to be based there to fight the Germans, which they did.

The US did not send them.

You yet again tried to get away with a lie, you didn't. And now you try to pretend you said something different.

I never said the Canadian cartoonist was a reliable source on Axis reports. For new readers who may not have seen it, this is it:

It was an example of how some Canadians viewed Irish neutrality. Some Canadians and other allied were dying in the Atlantic because we denied bases on our west coast to operate from, so not surprising. They were not mocking the Portugese who had lent them the use of the Azores to operate from, to defend their shipping etc.

There were many ways for German spies with the aid of Hempel the Nazi in Ireland to get information to Germany. I gave links for that. Not just radio. And their was more than one radio anyway. And coding was constantly evoling etc.

As regards Lord Haw Haw I never said he was a reliable source. I mentioned him in passing when talking about the bombing in Dublin - pointing out he said Dublin would be bombed, and it was shortly after. He complained about the Irish people using Amiens st Station ( now called Connolly stn) to go up north to enlist. The German bombing of North strand, killing 28, fell within 400 to 800 m of Amiens st station.

TTHE BRASS NECK OF YOU. Last night, post no. 1225, I wrote :

I stated a week ago on this very thread, post no. 562

The Eagle Squadrons were three World War2 RAF fighter units formed entirely by American volunteers. They operated in combat from UK bases prior to the U S entering the war. These American pilots flew missions from UK aifields before transferring to the U.S. Army Air Forces in 1942, bringing vital combat experience to American units."

How much clearer could I have been than that? They had permission to go and get the combat experience. They did not face charges when they came back.

Correct, two of my aunts worked in the M.O.D. during the war with one staying till her retirement in the late 1980's.

Pivot in 3,2,1……….

What's the going rate for history grinds?

My dad worked for a number of the war years at St. Angelo airfield in Enniskillen, had some great stories of the carry on.

Yes, when you dig into the censorship you can see how careful they were not to appear overly onesided. To me that is perfectly understandable given the real fears.

There were clear and fairly detailed instructions given to US service personel going to NI about the 'Free State.
Crom Castle where a lot of US soldiers were billeted has some fascinating documents given to US soldiers. Key one being do not treat the free state as hostile.
Fascinating little museum if you ever get the chance to visit.

It's on the bucket list. Many sailors spent their weekend pass in the Free State, I couldn't get any of the good stories as Grandma Madeline was always around 😉

I gave the cartoon for new readers to the thread. Not everyone has read most or all of the thread.

If you want to know the actual overall response of Canada to Irish neutrality, google will tell you a different overall view to the picture you attempt to paint:

"Canada wanted Ireland to join the Allies in WW2. Ottawa deeply valued Commonwealth solidarity and actively lobbied Dublin to abandon neutrality. However, recognizing Irish independence and the delicacy of Anglo-Irish relations, Canada ultimately respected Ireland’s sovereignty and avoided actions that might force the country out of the Commonwealth. [1, 2, 3, 4]Canada's Diplomatic Stance

• The Push for Belligerence: When the war broke out, Canada (unlike Ireland) swiftly issued its own declaration of war. Canadian officials pushed strongly for Ireland to join the Allied cause, emphasizing the geopolitical and naval importance of the island to the survival of the United Kingdom.
• Mediation Efforts: As tensions grew between Britain and Ireland—particularly over the British desire to reclaim the Irish Treaty Ports—Canada attempted to act as a diplomatic mediator. Ottawa wanted Ireland on the Allied side but did not support coercive measures by London."

Do not forget many Canadians died crossing the Atlantic trying to come and fight ridding Europe of Nazism, when we looked on as the western most part of Europe and not allowing any Canadian planes or ships to be temporarily based here to defend those people.