How many of us think that unification is no longer a priority and don't really want unification ?

This is nearly as bizarre as your take on FG feting the DUP. One FG TD said something four years ago is suddenly the main thesis!!

Can't be bothered clicking on a link to see what some thinktank in the UK believes. Didn't know British thinktanks were the new font of knowledge.

What I will say is that the clear stance of all political parties except SF is that now is not the time for a border poll, and much needs to be done in terms of reconciliation before one happens. That is clear support for my view of the Constitution.

the shinners have been pushing for nationwide discussions for years. Has to start there

What should they be doing?

*please suggest things that are feasible in the real world.

They have said they cannot and will not be doing that. That is not a job they can do.

Partitionists love calling for this because they know it cannot be done by a single party and if it is they can get their knickers in a twist picking it apart.

SF have as expressed their views on what they would like to see in key areas just as other parties have. Partitionists respond that all of the suggestions are doomed to failure, unsurprisingly.

Of course it can be done, it is no more difficult than an election manifesto. Set out a few clear principles in relation to the main areas.

@Yeah_Right is correct, they are up to no more than shouting from the sidelines.

Of course it can be done, it is no more difficult than an election manifesto. 

You cannot speak for others which is what any single party would have to do.

The question we should be asking here is, why are those with the power, access and information so hesitant.

My view is, like belligerent Unionists and frightened partitionists they are afraid to let a proper discussion begin.

Your final paragraph illistrates the problem even if it overstates the time required.

Why would you need SF to lay out all this when you won't be getting a say on it?
Nobody will be voting for a SF Plan.

It is a pointless waste of time for any single party to invest the time and effort.

Their time is better spent on increasing the pressure on the Government to begin formally planning before it is too late.

A couple of years to even identify and define the scope is pretty optimistic. We have had well over 100 years of divergence, the Germans had only 40, and they are still struggling another 40 years later.

Based on that timescale, it would take 100 years for a united Ireland to fully work.

What are you talking about? Of course it will be voted on.

Sinn Fein tell us that a united Ireland is the number one priority. Include their proposals in their manifesto for the general election and let the people vote on it.

There is no point in Sinn Fein telling people in a general election that they will abolish the LPT, but in a united Ireland they will bring in a council tax. Get it all out there so people can see what kind of united Ireland SF want.

Are you saying that if the Government produced a plan for a united Ireland that said social welfare would be cut to the lowest level in either jurisdiction, that taxes would be raised to the highest level in either jurisdiction, that grants be cut to the lowest level etc., that Sinn Fein would roll with it without any views?

Fianna Fail had it right in their manifesto when they promised:

"Ensure that discussions on a
referendum on unity are not allowed
to get in the way of the essential
work of building the understanding
and reconciliation without which the
fundamental causes of conflict and
division cannot be addressed."

Let's get back to that and leave the silly notions of a border poll where they belong in the far far distant future, if ever.

If Sinn Fein are serious about a united Ireland, then put it in their manifesto what they would do for a united Ireland. Stand up for what they believe in, after all, FG and FF put their detailed ideas of the Shared Island in their election manifestos.

Of course, and I am beginning to suspect this, if SF are the equivalent of 1960s FF wrapping the green flag around themselves singing Four Green Fields, then it is only rhetoric designed to fool republican voters.

In 1998, over 90% of the ROI voted to lose claim to the 6 counties. Stronly indicates, majority of the do not want a UI.

But I do believe a UI vote today would never get close to 90%, but well over 50% (i would hope). The younder generation voter will pull that No % down I believe. In 1998, all voter (18 years+) had experienced seeing the troubles in the north on the news their whole life, so no suprise the yes vote was so high. The older generation remember what the IRA did to innocent people with Sinn Féinn closely involved in those activities. Yes, many in the south didnt understand why they were doing it, we didnt live up there under the then British government, we didnt experience the army patrolling the streets, etc. but all we saw were the horrors of bombs, shootings and kidnapping. I'm not saying Unionist groups didnt do their fair share of horrors as well. I'm not saying the current SF politicians were involved in any activity, but association by name will take another few generations for that to potentially change. It certainly will for me and my parents.

I think again the big reason SF has gained support over the past 10 years is majority of their voters is the younger gen who never saw experienced seeing the horrors on our tv every night, they dont remember the IRA or SF of the past. The younger gen dont yet understand the complexity and cost of integrating 2 government systems and the negative impact it may have on their lives.

SF do include the need for a proper plan.


Not a plan from a single party, including themselves.

I can demand things are in FF or FG manifesto's too. That is easy.

Doesn't mean it is going to happen.

This government was elected on the basis of pushing talk of a united Ireland to the side and focussing on the Shared Island Initiative. If others want different, they need to win a mandate.

"Ensure that discussions on a
referendum on unity are not allowed
to get in the way of the essential
work of building the understanding
and reconciliation without which the
fundamental causes of conflict and
division cannot be addressed."

There is nothing in Fine Gael's manifesto either about a border poll.

The Government is sticking to its mandate as it was elected to do. If others want something done, do it themselves.

Yes, others are allowed to look for something different, but they need to get a mandate for it. If SF want a united Ireland planned out, let them off to tell the electorate they want that done as a priority ahead of housing, healthcare, special needs education, VAT reductions, social welfare increases and all other issues down here.

So you accept there is no mandate from the last general election for the government to prepare for a border poll. That's grand, we can leave it there.

If the SDLP want the Irish people to do something, let them run for election here and get a mandate.