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How many of us think that unification is no longer a priority and don't really want unification ?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,005 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    who cares, the UK is finished.

    5 million won't have a choice but to pay up the small amount a UI would cost, as a no Ui would and does have greater costs both currently and going forward.

    it is being part of the UK that is causing the big cost of NI.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,061 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I wouldn't subscribe to this tbh EOTW.

    The finanacial arrangement between the UK and a UI will be so easily agreed and arranged I dare say many might not even notice.
    Once a vote passes it is not in anyone's interests to make transition a difficult or de-stabilising process. Brexit it won't be and I'd imagine a lot of work will be done by agreement beforehand.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 41,968 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Ah, SF's magic money tree in action yet again!

    How many times over is it that they've spent the Apple money? Now there's mythical billions from a broke future UK who ditched NI so they could stop funding it.

    It seems that post-Trump mkII the idea of the US throwing billions upon billions of free cash at NI is too fantastical for even them to entertain

    A country that now refuses to give a few bil to the literal poorest of the world, but hey, NI is special

    I'm partial to your abracadabra
    I'm raptured by the joy of it all



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,061 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Struggling to find a quote from SF saying all this Hotblack.
    I do remember being told in no uncertain terms the Apple money wasn’t ours by right and to stop listening to the Shinners on it. Be interesting to know what it was used for mind you.
    wee Magic money tree for FF FG maybe?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,204 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    Clear yes from me. I remember being told it would cost us X billions back in the early 2000's. We've someone survived since with a 200Bn debt from a recession, Brexit, billions lost thanks to COVID, not to mention the economic disruption caused by Russia and Iran.

    Unification would be a piece of piss and the eventual benefits of an all Ireland economy would be worth it. Belfast as part of the EU would be very attractive to foreign investment.

    I'm on the verge of a site ban. Please don't rage bait me, I'm easily triggered especially late at night!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,061 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Unification would be a piece of piss and the eventual benefits of an all Ireland economy would be worth it. Belfast as part of the EU would be very attractive to foreign investment.

    I think the package or Plan arrived at by FF FG SF Grs Soc Dems LAB etc and the stakeholders and citizens who will be supporting a UI will be framed as an 'investment' not a 'cost'.
    Said it before, partitionists allying (whether they like it or not) with Unionism will have to mount a 100% negative campaign and I think they'll struggle as a result.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 860 ✭✭✭kazamo


    The 5 million do have a choice…..by voting.

    And once more the cost of a United Ireland is being described as “small”.

    It won’t happen in my lifetime but that is admittedly a short timeframe.

    If we are serious about this, we should be part funding it now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,061 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    My mother used to say there'd never be peace in her lifetime, She got to see 17 years of it before she died.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,204 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    I'm on the verge of a site ban. Please don't rage bait me, I'm easily triggered especially late at night!



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,951 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    If we are serious about this, we should be part funding it now.

    Ireland does contribute funds to initiatives in NI.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,005 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    they have a vote yes, but it's not really a choice because external forces will push this to happen regardless because of the over all benefits.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,104 ✭✭✭Juran


    Imagine if a UI did happen in the future ? The HSE would inherit all these excellent modern NHS built hospitals & healthcare facilites. How would it take the HSE to make a complete hames of the exisiting NI healthcare services :: increased waiting lists, bed closures, scheduled procedure cancellations, etc.. oh wait, but the irish govenment would build bike sheds galore for those hospitals and sure thats all that matters for green Paddy.

    And I live in the west of ireland not the north by the way.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,061 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Apart from the fact you need to look at how bad the health service is in terms of delivery in NI, it would be a tremendous opportunity to construct a new all island health service.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,951 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    And I live in the west of ireland not the north by the way.

    Well it certainly sounds like you've never been in an NHS hospital.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 860 ✭✭✭kazamo


    what external forces are deciding this for the Irish electorate ?.

    Please elaborate.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,061 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Strictly speaking the NHS does not operate the north's health system, it's run by Health and Social Care (HSC) Northern Ireland.

    Several structural and functional differences.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 860 ✭✭✭kazamo


    Didn’t take long before this red herring resurfaces once more.

    We give token amounts to “initiatives in NI” but if we are serious about this, we should be Co funding the NI subsidy at least on a per capita basis.

    But the United Irelanders are against this, as it puts a hole in the myth that the NI is even close to funding itself.

    Then the next excuse will be the defence spend and other charges allocated to NI, but NI is under invested in health and education so the gap will widen.
    Excuse after that is US and EU will fund this on top of the UK contribution.
    We vote for it, we will be funding it.

    It is sad to see we are still putting lipstick on a pig and pretending we have a Miss World contestant.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,061 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    we should be Co funding the NI subsidy at least on a per capita basis.

    what?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 860 ✭✭✭kazamo


    We want ownership of the six counties, time to put our money where our mouth is.

    At the very least, it will signal that we are serious about this and move away from the aspirational goal it currently is.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,061 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    'Ownership'?
    I have certainly never suggested a 'takeover' by the powers that be here. Unification means the coming together of the two, mutually agreed, both equal.
    Takeover/ownership is colonisation all over again.
    The construction of a comprehensive Plan/White Paper on what is proposed by all supporting political parties and stakeholders is what is required and then if referendum is successful, negotiation with the British and those who voted no on compromises and their wishes.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 860 ✭✭✭kazamo


    Can you please quote where I mentioned you suggesting “ownership”. More red herrings.

    ”Unification means the coming together of the two, mutually agreed, both equal”.
    They are nice aspirationally words but irrelevant in the divided NI.

    This will be a form of colonisation because a sizeable minority in NI will reject whatever compromise is offered.

    The GFA provided peace but there is still no reconciliation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,061 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Yep

    We want ownership of the six counties,

    Via the GFA the north has agreed that the majority decision either way holds.


    It has held because the majority want to remain in the UK Union.

    All nationalist political parties accept that as do some Unionist parties who signed up to the Multi Party Agreement and take their place in the Assembly.
    If a majority decide they want Irish unity then those who are democrats will accept that while not neccessarily wanting it. Minorities like that exist right throughout the democratic world.

    Did it ever occur to you that you cannot reconcile that which was never together to begin with?
    The only way you can bring all together is via an inclusive and equal state. Where nobody has a veto and all rights are enshrined.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 413 ✭✭SpoonyMcSpoon


    I’m almost 40 and NI has always been a separate country. I have grown up in peace time in the Republic with little to no memory of the Troubles. It is difficult to picture how NI would merge with the Republic without some compromise to culture, tradition etc on both sides. However, being from the Republic and living here for so long with this status quo, I don’t see the cultural or political reason to merge NI with the Republic.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭JohnDoe2025


    If the DUP were running for election in this jurisdiction, you would see the same standards applied.

    The FACT is that they are not running for election in this jurisdiction.

    It doesn't matter what you think should happen, the reality is that without outreach to the DUP, the constitutional aspiration of unity of the people will not happen. That you remain mired in binary post-colonial thinking demonstrates this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,061 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    the constitutional aspiration of unity of the people will not happen. 

    Yes partitionists seem to have a different view of what the constitution means. We saw a long time poster here raise this very same argument before. They were never able to answer the question, why is 'consent' required in both jurisdictions in the constitution.

    “It is the firm will of the Irish Nation, in harmony and friendship, to unite all the people who share the territory of the island of Ireland, in all the diversity of their identities and traditions,

    recognising that a united Ireland shall be brought about only by peaceful means with the consent of a majority of the people, democratically expressed, in both jurisdictions in the island.”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭JohnDoe2025


    The piece in bold is secondary to the first paragraph which sets the firm will of the Irish nation to unite all the people in all the diversity of their identities and traditions.

    That requires and demands outreach to groups like the DUP. That has to come before any border poll.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,061 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Nonsense of the highest order.

    I've debated this before and others contributed too. Maybe go find those debates.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭JohnDoe2025


    Primary objective is to unite the people, that is what the Constitution says.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,061 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Shame not a single main political party draws attention to this 'primary objective' when talking about a border poll.

    Why would you talk about a border poll if there is a constitutional hoop to be jumped through first?

    An absolute nonsense take on the constitution there and not worth discussing tbh.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭JohnDoe2025


    That is a crazy post.

    What do you think the Shared Island Initiative is about? Why do you think every party except SF think that the time isn't yet right for a border poll?

    Q: How do you prepare for a future border poll?

    A: You deliver the Shared Island Initiative and unite the people of this country in their full diversities.

    That is what all the parties except SF are focussed on. It is about time that SF put aside the rhetoric and got on with delivering something for the people of this island.



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