Is Irelands neutrality stance in WW2 unfairly criticized? (see Mod note 217)

You made two claims which you have yet to back up or explain.

In relation to the 50+ Allied countries in WW2, you wrote: "some just decide not to be neutral to get their hands on whatever's on offer." If you think that was their motivation, who got their hands on what do you think, and at what cost?

You also claimed, and I quote "In the end whether you remain neutral or not has more to do with geography and resources than morality."

What have the 50+ allied countries in common regarding your claim or geography or morality?

When you explain those questions going back days, I'll give you all the links you want. I have probably already given more links on this thread in the past 3 days that everyone else put together.

I'll tell you what the 50+ Allied countries had in common: they were all allowed to join the U.N. a decade before we were allowed to.

edited for spelling

P.S. just to add. There was a strong anti-Nazi sentiment amongst in the German Club in Dublin. The early part of the war was an anxious time for them. They believed that if we joined the Allies or were invaded by the British, they'd all be interned. If the Germans invaded, tbey believed they'd have been targeted by the Nazis for being anti-Nazi.

Let's look at the links in your AI search

Hempel returned to Germany in 1949 and was denazified in Stade in the British occupation zone as "Category V – exonerated", so faced no sanctions.

And

"Official circles in Ireland recognised that Dr Hempel behaved correctly throughout his mission, given the narrow limits of his position. For example, he respected Ireland's neutrality better than the American minister did. If he were regarded as having been 'Hitler's man', I would not have been instructed, as an official of the Irish Embassy in Bonn, to attend his funeral in 1972

'I agree that Dr Hempel ought to have resigned when pressured to join the Nazi party, but not all of us are endowed with heroic virtues. He had no need to use the "classical excuse" that he followed orders: he was not accused of war crime

Quite simply also, there was no legal request to extradite him. The failure to provide a verified link to such a request speaks for itself.

Of course the Allied 51 countries who set up the UN were somewhat "a very motley crew", as they were from all over the world etc. They all however resisted Nazism, and had joined the Allies before VE day. That is why we were not allowed join the U.N. until a decade after the war was over, a decade after the U.N. was established. Even though we tried, we applied to join the group of 51 countries in 1946. But we were refused.

You have still not explained your : two claims which you have yet to back up or explain.

In relation to the 50+ Allied countries in WW2, you wrote: "some just decide not to be neutral to get their hands on whatever's on offer." If you think that was their motivation, who got their hands on what do you think, and at what cost?

You also claimed, and I quote "In the end whether you remain neutral or not has more to do with geography and resources than morality."

What have the 50+ allied countries in common regarding your claim or geography or morality?

Hempel returned to Germany in 1949 and was denazified in Stade in the British occupation zone as "Category V – exonerated", so faced no sanctions.

Lowest of the 5 categories which were

Category I (Major Offenders / Hauptschuldige): Key leaders, major war criminals, and individuals who played a decisive role in initiating or executing the regime's crimes.

Category II (Offenders / Belastete): Activists, militarists, and direct beneficiaries of the regime, including those who committed atrocities but did not reach the level of "Major Offender".

Category III (Lesser Offenders / Minderbelastete): Individuals who held moderate or peripheral roles but still showed significant Nazi sympathies. This group typically faced a period of probation and supervision.

Category IV (Followers / Mitläufer): The vast majority of the German populace who nominally accepted the regime or complied to survive without holding active leadership roles. This classification usually resulted in fines or lighter penalties

Category V (Exonerated Persons / Entlastete): Individuals who actively resisted the Nazi regime or managed to quietly oppose it without being heavily

You would think if they wanted to put him on trial they would have at least found him to be category 3 or 4!

The Marshall Plan was a post-World War II U.S. aid program that provided over $13,300 million (equivalent to over $150 billion today) to 16 Western European nations.

About 90% of the above funds were distributed as direct, non-repayable grants, so the US gave Europe about 12,000 million in grants.

Ireland received a total of $147.45 million in Marshall Plan (European Recovery Program) aid between 1948 and 1952. This comprised $128.2 million in loans, $18 million in grants, and roughly $1.25 million in technical assistance

Compare the 12,000,000,000 dollars the US gave Europe in Marshall aid grants with the mere 18,000,000 we got.

We only got 00.149 % of the grant money. A drop in the Ocean from the country that has so many Irish-Americans. Even the Irish Americans shunned us after Dev's antics during the war. I gave a link about that a few days ago - there was much criticism of Dev from even Irish America after they saw the death camps many of their boys had helped liberate, and after Dev's condolences re Hitler, who set up the camps.

Most people would guess B?

Also ignored is that after the war Ireland received financial assistance through US-backed lending mechanisms.

The US Export–Import Bank supported industrial investment, infrastructure investment and financed development. We also benefitted from broader US initiatives, designed to modernise.
The US government didn't block or stand in the way of private US investment either as Trump threatens to do today.

There is zero evidence of a lasting 'cold shoulder' just as there is none for a grant of asylum or an extradition request.

Ireland was a backward inward looking place, starved of investment, for a decade or two after ww2. I showed you where we got only a pittance from the Americans. No Irish Americans even put in a word for us. Many had lost relatives liberating Hitlers death camps, well before Dev offered condolences on Hitler's death.

We only got 00.149 % of the grant money.

You made two claims which you have yet to back up or explain.

In relation to the 50+ Allied countries in WW2, you wrote: "some just decide not to be neutral to get their hands on whatever's on offer." If you think that was their motivation, who got their hands on what do you think, and at what cost?

You also claimed, and I quote "In the end whether you remain neutral or not has more to do with geography and resources than morality."

What have the 50+ allied countries in common regarding your claim or geography or morality?

They obviously thought they were morally superior to us because all of those 50+ founding members of the UN had one thing in common: they all fought Facism / declared war against the Nazis. We were not allowed join those 51 Allied / UN countries after the war and after they founded the UN for a decade.

Are you not aware that at the end of the war, the Allies requested the handover and prosecution of Nazi diplomats? The Allied Control Council formally stripped the Nazi diplomatic service of its authority in 1945.

As noted already, if you research it, you will see many German and Axis diplomats were arrested, prosecuted by military tribunals, or tried for war crimes and "conspiring to wage aggressive war". Dev allowed Hempel remain here from 1945 until 1949. He stayed out near Dun Laoghaire as far as I remember.

So is it a fact that countries that supposedly detested ireland ie. Canada, US, Uk actually supported irleand joining the UN from 1946 on?

This a verified and backed up fact.

It is also a fact that no extradition warrant was issued for Hempel from ANY source.

Therefore extradition could not be refused and to claim it was is bogus.

There was also NO grant of asylum for Hempel. He recieved the routine treatment diplomats received and still receive,
To claim he was granted asylum is also bogus.
It is also verified fact that Ireland received aid and assistance from the US after the war and even during the war. There was no embargoes, sanctions or breakdown in normal diplomatic relations.

FDR did lose his temper according to anecdote and there are several accounts of the meeting with Aiken etc from flying knives to yanking a tablecloth and spilling a few bits of cutlery.
Despite that, the meeting did secure economic assistance, improved communications and an assurance Britain would not invade Ireland.

They were approved by the countries it is claimed detested and cold shouldered Ireland.

Own it, this was just one in a line of bogus claims to unfairly criticise.