Bertie Ahern rejoins Fianna Fail

it’s not obfuscating. Nobody said all Somalians are thieves and criminals.

Here's the whe he said in relation to people from a full continent, then country, then a whole religion.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/M57f40MnffA

It's as racist set of comments as you'll hear - the very definition of the term.

He wasn't caught off guard - he was either trying to get the persons vote by agreeing with their stance to them one to one (but perhaps not actually believing what he was saying - he has lied about things in the past so this wouldn't be surprising. Or he is genuinely racist, but perhaps usually more guarded about it.

Either way the guy has lied to the public before and in the past has suggested people "commit suicide" should they pour negativity on the economy and of course doesn't hold a bank account.

The guy shouldn't be anywhere near the public eye.

Bertie's racism gets a pass because of his status as a FF member and former Taoiseach/leader of FF. No other reason.

No, that isn't my point. You can argue it many ways. There can be more people coming from the Congo escaping high crime rates (but whether this meets the genuine refugee definition is another issue) or there can be people who have made money from crime economically moving for a better life, but bringing their personal culture of crime with them.

The thing about asylum is that it is contextual, no two decisions are the same, because the context of the arrival in the foreign country is not the same. That context may include considerations around the high crime rate in the country of origin, and that may influence asylum decision-makers and that may give concerns over arrivals from particular regions or countries. That isn't racism.

There are also other factors, if someone appeared tomorrow at Dublin Airport from the Congo, a public health question around Ebola might be made by an immigration officer that wouldn't have been asked two months ago. Context matters.

'The ones I worry about are the Africans, I agree with you on the Africans'

'Meaningful discussion' or racism?

I didn't say that, I just explained the difference between binary views of the world and the continuum of viewpoints.

No I am not, I am saying that there are different degrees of racism and a blurring of the lines where somebody might or might not be a racist, or might just have made some atypical racist remarks, and that a simple label of racist doesn't cover all scenarios.

I have a problem with blunt labelling and blunt depictions which are common on here that do not reflect the blurred and opaque reality we live in outside of social media.

Not all situations are therefore the same. If you disagree with me, and think all racists are the same, you are equating Duke and Moll to Bertie by implication.

I am not making up crap, I am saying that I see the world as a continuum, that Bertie Ahern is no Duke or Moll. What is strange that those who just straight up label him a racist and condemn him from a lofty height, using the same invective they would against a Duke, can't tone down some of what they say about him.

You may not understand my nuances, but I am not posting in bad faith.

In other words, you were twisting other posters' words, ie posting in bad faith to defend a racist.

Feel free to link the post comparing Bertie with Duke and/or Moll.

So you can't link any post of anyone actually saying that, ie you're talking sh*te.

Folks don't want caveats here. It ruins their wanting to slate the man as an out and out racist, no different than some really vile career racists.

Unless I am wrong, I can't recall any clear incidents with Bertie ever that would have any half educated person label him a racist.

He has been slated now for this ONE incident where he clumsily worded what he was trying to convey, and of course, we have mischievous people jumping all over him, and not even able to discuss it with any type of context.

To some he's a racist now forever, and screw his past and screw the fact that in decades of public service he never displayed any racism whatsoever. It's a horrible way for people to be, really. To be so damning of a person who said a few sentences and they now are taking glee is calling him a racist

I said it earlier, there was a lady of color on a few days ago who said it perfectly….she said what he said could be perceived as racist, and was inappropriate, but that she would not auto-label him a racist based off it. She looked at it with context and logic. Too many people want to run with the hard line you're a racist!