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Ireland vs Israel - To play or not to play, that is the question Read OP for Mod Warning

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,729 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    This thread is about football 

    This thread is about a football match, and specifically the context around it being held. If you want to just discuss football, you and all the diehard Irish football fans in here, there's a forum and threads for those discussions.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,396 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    Id say most people are motivated by living their own lives and are more concerned about issues in their own households then issues they have no influence over.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,474 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Most countries and people outside of Ireland view this from a more neutral position

    Nonsense - 18 countries have enjoined the South Africa Genocide case against Israel in the ICJ, three more are awaiting approval to join and many blocs of nations have signed up too.

    And the ICC Criminal Court's top prosecutor has requested sealed arrest warrants issued for Israeli ministers Bezalel Smotrich and Itamar Ben-Gvir, a source told Haaretz, with another adding that three more warrants would target Minister Orit Strock, a member of Smotrich's far-right party, and two IDF officials. That's on top of already issued warrants for Netanyahu and Gallant for War Crimes. Both are still at large.

    So by that metric, most countries and law enforces want Israel to face justice for their crimes.

    If the ICJ rule that Israel has in fact committed Genocide (as a UN commission already determined as fact), I'd imagine Israel will be banned from everything, including football, for decades.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,729 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Well, duh.

    But that doesn't meant they don't care about the suffering of others.

    Some don't, clearly. But if you polled the people of Ireland tomorrow, the vast majority would say Israel should be sanctioned for their actions.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,396 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    And if you asked them to rank the economy, housing, healthcare, cost of living, immigration and Israel/Palestine in order of concern, Israel/Palestine would be at the bottom of that list.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,729 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    And where do you think the finances of the FAI would be?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,396 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    I would say people would fully understand the FAI position if it was explained in detail where they stood financially and the rationale behind them having to fulfil the fixtures

    And i think most people would support them given they have responsibilities to their staff at a time when cost of living, rent, mortgages, food bills are quite expensive especially given the recent poll where those concerns were very prominent.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,729 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    You just answered the question yourself.

    Most people instinctively would be more inclined to demonstrating compassion towards Palestinians and wanting to see the perpetrators of their suffering held to account than hearing about possible financial difficulties on an organisation that has been rife with financial difficulties as long as people can remember.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,396 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    I said no such thing. Please stop telling lies about me



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,729 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Lol.

    Everyone can read the posts and know what was said. Indirectly, but clearly. Thanks.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,396 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    The issues facing the FAI would have direct consequences for their staff, already has given the redundancies in recent times so given recent polls put cost of living, immigration, healthcare, housing and the economy way ahead of Israel/Palestine i would deduce from that, that people would be more concerned with those issues and the impact it has on fellow citizens of this country.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,396 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,474 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    you inferred that people would stand by the FAI if they were in financial difficulty. I don't believe they would - with all the scandals and financial jiggery pokery over the years, there'd be little sympathy for them.

    As for telling lies, you weren't accused I believe. But I see you're well able to dish it out to others when it suits.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,396 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    Again, wrong. I said people would understand the FAI position and why they have to fulfil fixtures (the main reason being obligations to their staff) and given recent polls placed issues already outlined way ahead of Palestine/Israel, issues which would impact those very same employees then people would by and large support that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,474 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    let me remind you what you posted:

    people would fully understand the FAI position if it was explained in detail where they stood financially

    People only care about their own financial situation - not that of an organisation (the FAI) that has had a bad public image in that regard in the past.

    You're manipulating facts to suit your own narrative. It's not working.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,432 ✭✭✭wildgreen


    History will remember what is important, namely the boycott of the genocidal, ethnic cleansing, state



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,396 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    The FAI financial position has a direct impact on its employees, like any business does. You already know that but your trying to twist something to suit your own agenda, which is quite pathetic really.

    The FAI may have a bad image with the public but at the end of the day, it employs real people, many on average industrial wages and there would be plenty of support for the FAI staff on human level as they, like the rest of us have to face the same challenges posed by economy, immigration, housing, rents, cost of living etc.

    In my own household, those issues are real. Three kids, one about to sit the LC and hopefully college in September, thankfully in Dublin as moving out of Dublin would not be financially viable.

    Those same employees in the FAI face the exact same challenges as the rest of society.

    And the recent poll, which I shared above, shows that those real life issues are of far greater concern than Israel/Palestine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,396 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    What boycott?

    Its Mid May 2026 now, October 7 2023 was approx 32 months ago and No boycott of Israel has taken place as of yet.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,474 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    I'm twisting nothing. I'm just commenting on what you posted - which you seem to be having difficulty recalling.

    If the FAI got into financial difficulty for any other reason, the public wouldn't care less. As you've said, some people are facing difficulties but i can guarantee they'd be looking out for number one only, not FAI employees.

    If however, the difficulty was as a result of a boycott of Israel, I think they'd get a lot of support, including financial.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,396 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    So you agree, people are far more concerned with themselves (cost of Living, rents, housing, healthcare etc) then anything else, including Israel/Palestine.

    Where is that financial support coming from? The government? Or a few friendlies with Celtic?

    If the government get involved in an FAI led boycott it could lead to a suspension due to political interference.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,392 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    I still think the decision is ultimately a UEFA / FIFA decision.
    What the FAI/Ireland does or doesn’t do is irrelevant to the current situation, and not going to change anything.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,729 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Agreed.

    It is a UEFA/FIFA decision.

    My preference for a boycott is not so as to put pressure on or undermine the FAI, but to put pressure on UEFA to either own their biased application of the law, or act in the right way, albeit late, but still is better than never.

    The FAI are in an unfortunate position, but the situation is critical.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,474 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Of course I agree - its certainly what most people are complaining about. But there are also plenty of people with strong views on Israel's Genocide.

    As for people marching in the streets if FAI employees fell on hard times, I seriously doubt it. Would you?

    And if the FAI boycott the games, they'd be suspended anyhow, so if the Govt. did step in, FIFA couldn't suspend them as they'd already be suspended.

    You seem to be really hung up on this "food on the table" nonsense as it applies to people's view of FAI employees. Most people don't even know who the FAI is and couldn't care less. Didn't see massive rallies when the transport industry started blocking motorways did we?

    I agree with your principle - and have said so before. FAI must play the games or face a suspension. If they are suspended, it's a serious situation financially for them and a bad day for Irish football.

    But the FAI and others need to pressure FIFA/UEFA to apply their rules and ban Israel. And Irish fans plus Irish public need to call out Israel, the Pariah State for their war crimes. And Israeli fans for their overt racism and thuggery.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,396 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    You do realise a suspension Could be 2 years for boycotting games, followed by two more years for government interference if a boycott was seen as pushed by government who offered financial support to do so.

    Why does it fall to Irish football fans to call things out? Why not the many other sides who played Israel in the last two and a half years?

    Why did they not do it?

    The FAI and Irish football did call Israel out last year. The motion was put to UEFA who disregarded it. Thats a damn side more then most people in this country have done as they continue to use Israeli linked goods or services in their day to day life, literally funding Israel.

    Most people in this country in my experience would respect other workers, like supported Debenhams workers post covid when they went bust or others who have taken industrial action in recent times.

    The fuel protestors by and large had the support of the public going by polls in media and from seeing those interviewed. Disregarding the FAI employees just because public perception of the FAI is negative is nonsense.

    At the end of the day we all need money. Its why we go to work. And an FAI employee is no different to me, you or any other worker in this country. They face the same challenges many others face with high rents, housing, cost of living etc.

    And the knock on effect for Irish football would have serious consequences long term if they did boycott the games. Thats not my opinion. That's the CEO of the FAI stating that. But some, like "tell me how" wants to disregard that because it doesn't suit his/her agenda.

    Post edited by Paddy_Mag on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,396 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    So go to UEFA headquarters and protest there. Put pressure on UEFA yourself? If Mary Manning can bring down apartheid by going on strike in Dunnes Stores 40 years ago, maybe you can be the 21st century version by bringing down Israel by getting UEFA to ban them from football.

    Will you Go protest outside Intel in Leixlip to close stop importing goods manufactured in their Israeli operation?

    Go protest outside Pfizer in Clondalkin for their links to Israel?

    Or will you protest outside Croke Park because the GAA are sponsored by Allianz?

    Or maybe you will protest outside my place of work because I use devices which are built by an Israeli branch of global medical devices company?

    No you wont. You will sit in your ivory tower demanding others do the necessary so long as it doesn't impact you. Others have to boycott/protest Israel while you just cry about it on the Interweb. Ironically you are calling for a boycott of Israel probably using a device or devices which were in part, manufactured in Israel. Virtue signalling is alive and well.

    The situation is not critical from the FAI perspective. Its quite simple. UEFA provice the income which pays the bills. They have to fulfil the fixtures. Its quite simple really.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,667 ✭✭✭✭RobbingBandit


    FAI must be insistent on either behind closed doors or non crowd neutral venue for home and away games if Uefa won't budge.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,396 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    Why?

    Also, They cannot do that. It is against UEFA rules.

    The home game will be in Dublin and the away game likely to be in Hungary for security reasons.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 506 ✭✭✭Greengrass53


    In other words,Stop bothering me with this genocide stuff I have too much going on. Does that include going to a football match? Just asking like!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,396 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    Am I suppose to put my life on hold because bad sh1t happens in the world?

    Have you stopped enjoying your life in the last 31-32 months? Or have you continued to do the same things you enjoy in life ?

    And yes I enjoy football matches. Shels with the family, Ireland with my mates. Does that offend you?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 506 ✭✭✭Greengrass53


    Mom and apple pie guff. In the meantime Israel are practicing genocide but hey ho nothing to see here.



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