Advertisement
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
https://www.boards.ie/group/1878-subscribers-forum

Private Group for paid up members of Boards.ie. Join the club.
Hi all, please see this major site announcement: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058427594/boards-ie-2026

"Green" policies are destroying this country

1113811391141114311441149

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭bored65


    Why would China be building nuclear if it’s so terrible?

    Why is France an irradiated nuclear wasteland and not the most tourist visited country in world with cheaper and cleaner electricity than us??

    Why has backward Canada just broken ground in SMRs??



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,079 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Noticed the ninja edit there

    There are no rare earth elements in solar panels or cobalt in LFP batteries or lithium in Sodium ion batteries.

    As for slavery, the gulf states have hundreds of thousands of forced labourers. We should boycott oil and gas

    Ban billionaires



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,079 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Literally in the same post Bored65 is saying china can only produce cheaply because they use exploited labour and also says we should build nuclear because china can do it cheaply

    Ban billionaires



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭bored65


    There are plenty of rare earths and metals and concrete in turbines, the frames, plastic etc panels go on and need and copper to wire them don’t grow on trees either picked by cheerful Chinese peasants from tea bushes (or whatever daft vision of China greens have)

    Wait till you learn just how much oil turbines need for lubricants alone in a year

    You keep talking out of both sides of your mouth, while excusing the destruction of European jobs and industries for your Chinese overlords



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,789 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    If you think that's bad you should check out how much oil gets burned to generate electricity in a power plant. Not to mention the amount of rare earth metals, concrete and copper wiring that go into a fossil fuel power plant before even thinking about the emissions that result in climate change and health problems



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,079 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Ah lads, we've retreated back to 'and metals and concrete' to be giving out about
    What do you think LNG terminals and Nuclear power stations are made out of? Fairy dust?

    Ban billionaires



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭bored65


    One power plant on a 50 hectare site for a whole country instead of thousands of installations taking a good percentage of the land in the state

    5000MW worth of wind turbines spends more oil for lubricants in a year than equal sized reactor spends on uranium in same time frame which produces electricity 95% of time instead of 30 and lasts 3x longer

    strawman much? I don’t see anyone pushing for oil burning plants



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,965 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    If you own a car I doubt you have ever looked under the bonnet.

    Your China 85% renewable grid is the same fantasy thinking as Denmark`s 80% +

    China generates 58% of it`s electricity from coal and gas. 22% from wind and solar.

    They have expanded the Siberian gas pipeline with Russia to deliver 44 bcm annually of cheap Russian gas and the Far East route when it becomes operational next year will supply an addition 12 bcm of additional long term supply.They are also heavily involved with Russia on increasing the level of LNG they buy from them.

    China domestically produces 262 bcm of gas annually. This is project to increase to double to 550 bcm by 2030 and to ~650 bcm by 2040. In context, twice what the E.U. uses now. 45% of their gas is currently provided by shale and methane based extraction - both major no-nos for greens - and the main drivers for their projected increases.

    Of the massive volume of coal China burns each year 40% of it is to supply industry. 25% to provide the high temperatures required for steel and cement production as well as for district heat and 15% for the coal to chemicals industry that emits 1 Billion tons of CO2 annually.

    Don`t blindly swallow ever bit of propaganda you hear from China. 5 years ago China, India and others made it clear at COP 21 that when it came to fossil fuels giving them a competitive advantage their economy was their priority, not reducing emissions.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,789 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Would it not be more beneficial to use the oil to lubricate wind turbines than to burn it off to make an infinitesimally small amount of electricity though? Because without the wind turbines that's where the oil will go

    Same with China's recent major rollout of solar farms, 1GW installed last year alone. It's because solar is now cheaper to use than fossil fuel power plants. As you correctly say it's all to do with the economy



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,079 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    You'd want to check with Charlie, he thinks 3 pipelines count as one connector and thinks this is too dangerous from an energy security standpoint, while you're on here advocating putting all of our chickens into a single installation?

    what happens if that site goes down? the entire country goes dark for ??? length of time?

    What happens if the uranium supply chain gets disrupted the same way the oil and gas supply chain was disrupted? What about the waste stream?

    I'm glad you're not in charge of energy policy

    Ban billionaires



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭bored65


    You keep creating a strawman, no one is talking about burning oil, it’s needed to make all that Chinese tat with coal in China

    Soeaking of burning oil our national policy was to replace perfectly fine boilers at Moneypoint that had months of coal as backup with oil boilers that has days of backup

    Yet another failed “green” policy that engineering bodies been printing out lately (links few pages back) as completely stupid



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭bored65


    Why would it go dark, it’s easier to blow up an underwater pipeline (which happened) where they cross in same spot compared to destroying a nuclear plant (which even a scumbag like Putin is not stupid enough to attack)

    One can get uranium from Canada or Australia it’s cheap as chips



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,079 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Fossil fuels provided 58% of China's electricity in 2025, down from about 62% in 2024

    The trajectory is towards renewables with some nuclear

    They're building renewables incredibly quickly and investing in the future technologies to complete the green transition.

    They are investing in green hydrogen and electric furnace technology for heavy industry, and are using Coal and gas until these are ready for adoption.

    These investments are the long term solution, its not just greenwashing or propaganda, it's long term planning because they have recognised that fossil fuels are not sustainable, and are trying to decarbonise.

    Ireland, Europe and the US should be aiming to compete in decarbonising and creating the future energy systems instead of clinging on to fossil fuels like LNG and Gas, while distracting from green tech with trojan horse nuclear proposals

    Ban billionaires



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭bored65




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,965 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    2025 China generated 58% of it`s electricity from fossil fuels, 55% of it from coal with a further 40% of their coal burned to provide the high temperatures required for steel and cement production and district heating. For 2025 their added solar generated 2%. Your going to be waiting a long time to see solar replacing coal in China.

    China will do what China has always done.

    Use the cheapest source available to give them a competitive edge and boost their economy, and with the increases in both gas and LNG from Russia as well as their own production of gas set to go from their current 262 bcm to 650 bcm by 2040, - practically all from fracking and methane based extraction - China would not appear to have your belief that solar will be cheaper and are keeping their options very much open without much regard for the emissions from coal or fracking and methane extractions of gas.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,965 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    See my post above and then tell me from the projected increase of their use of gas by 2040 then tell me about this long term planing of theirs on decarbonising.

    China will do whatever they judge it takes, using whatever source will give them a competitive advantage for as long as possible, and right now they are hedging their bets on gas.

    It`s what they have always done and will continue to do for the good of their economy. They made that crystal clear COP 21 in Scotland. They may talk the talk, but when it comes to walking the walk ………



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 929 ✭✭✭eoinbn


    China uses 400bcm of natural gas per year currently.

    That is growing and is expected to peak at around 600cm in 2040, at which point it could start to decline.

    600bcm is roughly about what Europe used in 2020 so it's not an insanely high figure.

    It's also convenient that you are ignoring the fact that China makes nearly everything we use so 'their' pollution is really our pollution exported.

    By 2040 China is projected to generate 6-7 times more electricity from solar than natural gas. But sure, keep pretending like solar is some sort of scam that only a few green idiots are investing in when in fact most of the world is heavily investing in it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭bored65


    One side of mouth

    China makes everything we use

    other side of mouth

    Let’s import more from China and kill more European industries and jobs

    /s



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,965 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    It`s kind of convenient for green to ignore that by using cheap coal China has priced everybody else out of the market for the green tech they produce. As I`ve said, when it comes to priorities for China nothing comes close to protecting and expanding their economy.

    The E.U. consumed ~90 bcm generating 16.7% of its electricity last year. If the E.U. used 540 bcm of gas it would have generated 100% of its requirements, so in perspective that 650 bcm for China is an insanely high figure. So if they are increasing their gas use to 650 bcm what are the planning on using it for rather than electricity. Not that it matters much as whatever they use it for, it`s not going to decrease emissions.

    Ireland is a pretty crappy location for grid utility solar with a capacity factor of 5% or less during winter when our demand is highest, and even on a daily basic during winter when it`s providing nothing for two of the three high demand daily times.

    In other news, offshore wind has lost it`s shine in Germany anyway it seems. I`m just seeing reports coming up that BP and TotalEnergies are pulling out of the 7.5 GW offshore awarded in 2023.

    Germany last year also didn`t get a single bid for their 6 - 10 GW offshore offering.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 929 ✭✭✭eoinbn


    The EU and China figures are like for like - both include electricity generation and industrial use. The majority will be for industrial use - electricity cannot be used for everything.

    By 2050 solar will be the dominant source of electrically generation in China, followed by wind, nuclear and hydro.

    The EU does plan to start applying tariffs on products that are produced with carbon intense practices to try and level the playing field. There needs to be more common sense applied in other areas - like meat/diary production. There is little point shipping those industries abroad just for the sake of exporting our carbon footprint.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,965 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    No surprise that you do not care about Denmark`s electricity grid flow as it blew your 80% + claim of their grid being renewables out of the water.

    If you are going to quote me then do it without putting words in my mouth.I didn`t say Denmark was backtracking on renewables pursuing nuclear instead.

    I pointed out that Denmark said that their could not be a 100% renewable grid and that something else was needed, as to why they are now looking into nuclear, and with Norway now pulling the plug and Sweden looking likely to do similar, they would not have a zero emissions baseload source.

    Batteries as grid provider it seem are the latest shiny object greens are now running too. The cost is beyond laughable and the cost of the extra capacity require with renewables to use batteries as a baseload are even more beyond laughable. But then those that support these ideas are very much like you when it came to Denmark`s grid flow electricity and their supposedly 80% + renewables grid. You don`t care about the cost either. It`s following the doctrine to the letter that matters.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,859 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    Data says otherwise. China is on an upward trajectory. Its per‑capita emissions are lower than the US, but not "less than half". Not surprising really when Chinese companies are the dominant processor for many raw materials especially those needed in wind turbines and solar panels. That processing needs a lot of energy, especially coal. The country produces over half the worlds steel, you can't make virgin steel without coal.

    image.png


    image.png


    The reality for Europe, nothing to do with fossil fuel "misinformation", voters get annoyed when the lights go out and high energy bills come in, wind and solar can't deliver reliability at economic cost. Politicians want to get re-elected.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,965 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Culling our cattle numbers and cutting our exports will not alter emissions globally by one iota as others are not just more than happy to take up the slack, they are increasing their herd number to fulfill rising global demand. All culling number would achieve is lowering our exports and trade balance.

    China are in no mood to discuss tariffs and the last thing the E.U. needs right now is a trade war with China.

    What China intends doing with that massive level of gas remains to be seen, but from what I understand, China last year had an exceptionally high addition of solar that covered 2% of their demand. To remove coal from the generating mix it would take ~30 years more of the same.

    I don`t see where the E.U. is saying that gas can be used for anything if we are all supposed to have zero emissions by 2050 ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,031 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    The Chinese are basically getting whatever energy they can lay their hands on. For them investment in renewables is just another source.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,965 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    As always, at the end of the day China will go with the least expensive, and with the embargoes on Russian oil and gas they are getting it at their terms price-wise.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,079 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Charlie, you've just ended the case for Oil gas and Nuclear as the backbone of a 21st century grid

    If China only ever do what's in their own best interest and want the cheapest form of energy, then that means renewables plus storage are the future for 90% of our energy needs, they are investing the most in solar wind and storage out of any other fuel source, and by a long distance. The speed of increase in deployments of solar storage and wind far far outstrip any gas or nuclear infrastructure, and their UHV electricity cables will carry far more energy across China than any gas pipeline ever could.

    China are also investing in technology to replace coal in heavy industry

    Ban billionaires



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭bored65


    And yet China is building more nuclear than the rest of the world combined and researching new reactors such as thorium of which there is millions of years worth

    While destroying “Green” industries in places like Europe while Green watermelons cheer them on using coal and slave labour to accomplish it

    You have swallowed wholesale Chinese marketing and propaganda ironically enough in the process ensuring gas is burned well into the next century in this country



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,079 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Its also a way for them to exceed their Paris commitments ahead of 2035. They're deploying double the amount of renewable infrastructure they projected for this point in time and are likely to have already peaked their emissions ahead of their 2030 target

    While Ireland are whining about the mean old EU forcing us to abide by our own commitments, China has actually invested in the technology to meet their targets.

    Ireland can't even deploy 30 year old technology because our political system is so bottlenecked. The government is too weak to reform the planning system, Too ideologically blinkered to spend state money on state assets, too short sighted to invest in our grid and to ignorant to recognise that investments now in renewable infrastructure will more than pay back over the generations to come.

    Ban billionaires



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭bored65


    Thanks for proving yet again that greens in Ireland don’t actually give two 💩 about co2 or climate change

    Co2 emissions per capita

    China

    9.13

    Ireland

    6.47

    co emissions

    China

    13,124 million tons

    +0.79%

    Ireland

    32.57 million tons

    -0.89%

    In a few weeks (while they build a new coal plant every week) they increase their Co2 by more than all of ours in a year

    But hey you just continue to keep shooting your self in foot with terrible examples that expose the moral and factual bankruptcy of the green agenda



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 929 ✭✭✭eoinbn


    China built 315GW(capacity accounted for it would be closer to 50GW) of solar last year and have a TOTAL of 62GW of nuclear. They have another 40GW under construction. By 2050 they will have around 300GW of nuclear and 5500GW of solar. Still far more solar than nuclear even with capacity factored in.

    So even the country building the most nuclear is still building far more solar than nuclear...



Advertisement
Advertisement