Is Irelands neutrality stance in WW2 unfairly criticized? (see Mod note 217)

Who is asking the Ireland to declare war on anyone?Use of the ports and an airfield or two was all that was suggested here.

You might argue that's contravention of Neutrality. But Ireland was doing that anyway.

All it achieved was damaging international and Anglo arrangements that ultimately Ireland needed to prosper economically.

You might argue it would have destroyed Irelands hard won independence. But that's a reach. After WW2 the empire slowly disintegrated as countries mostly gained their independence or autonomy.

In hindsight it might be a reach but they didn’t have the benefit of that.

Not how it works If it’s a war crime then that’s what it is.

You are excusing a potential war crime by detailing what the other side did.

That is no excuse and is not how it works.

Where is your poll to show the Irish feared an invasion by Britain during WW2? Britain had enough to do during WW2 without invading us.

Dev's rep. Aiken went to Roosevelt to ask for arms. Aiken got thrown out after Roosevelt had a fit at the cheek of Aiken and threw knives and cutlery in the air.

We only got crumbs from the Marshall plan and were shunned by everyone from the US, UK and Russians for a decade or two after the war, so paid for our selfish stance during the war.

Why would I need a poll? The government believed the threat of invasion was real.

You need to get over the fact they made a decision in Ireland's interest not Britain’s and not the US’s.

And you still haven’t backed up the Aiken stuff.

I think Portugal only got admitted to the UN at the same time as us too.

Strategic bombing - Germans really opened that can of worms with bombing Belgian cities in WW1 and then London with Zeppelins etc. Then bombing of Guernica in Spain. Their opponents then retaliated. But it was the Germans who kept starting that line of attack.

The Germans propaganda really talked up Dresden and much of that false narrative persists to day. Exaggerated casualties etc. not that wasn't a horrible lost of life because obviously there was. But it wasn't a watershed in allied tactics they kept strategic and firebombing up till the end of the war in Japan.

Politicians might have distanced themselves afterwards with some distortion of their involvement.

It was some time after the fact that it known that area bombing was not accurate and indiscriminate and fire bombing even less accurate and more indiscriminate. The whole saga around Norden bomb site poor real-world performance with accuracy of around 30% for example.

France to Portugal by air is about the same distance as France to Ireland by air.

Even though Portugal allowed the Americans to use part of its territory, the Azores, during the war, as a military base, neither Portugal or the Azores were bombed.

It would have been more dangerous or riskier for the Germans to bomb Ireland rather than Portugal too, due to the proximity of Britain to any France-Ireland air route.

Despite Irish-America, which was as disgusted at Dev as the rest of America, the US government did illustrate its disapproval of Ireland after the war by awarding Ireland only $128.2 million in loan aid ( which had to be repaid) and $18 million in grant aid.

So Portugal could - and did - let the Allies use part of their territory to operate from, and not get attacked by Germany.

But you think we here in Ireland would have been bombed if we allowed the Allies use say part of Achill Island as an airfield?

Even though the airspace between France and Ireland was much riskier for Germany than the airspace from France to Portugal, around the bay of Biscay?

You forget range of the Heinkel He 177 Greif, the World War II Luftwaffe heavy bomber, had a maximum range of approximately 5,000 to 5,600 km, depending on the variant and payload, so could easily have bombed Portugal, which is only 1140 km from France. So its range would have been enough to fly over the sea to Portugal and back. Besides, the Germans did not care for the sensitivities of neutral countries when it suited Germany, it invaded 7 of them ( Norway, the Netherlands etc ). But the point is, Germany did not bomb Portugal, even though it was "neutral" but had an allied airbase.

The Irish government did not believe the threat of invasion was real. After Dunkirk, the British had more than enough to do elsewhere, and were stretched thin enough already. If it invaded there would have been fiece guerilla resistance. It invading a neutral country would have been an international public relations disaster for the Allies, potentially alienating the United States, which was providing the UK with crucial supplies.

The British preferred the carrot rather than the stick. The UK offered Ireland unity in June 1940 in exchange for abandoning its neutrality and joining the Allies. Dev obviously did not want unity bad enough. If Dev had been smart he would have taken unity but said no British forces in Ireland to protect us, only Canadians or Kiwis for example.

Of course Britain would have given N. Ireland to the South in return for the island joining the Allies in WW2. It would have been in their interests to do so.

German U-boats were sinking British supply ships at a devastating rate.

Dev missed a great opportunity if he wanted a U.I.

Countries do what is in their best interests, especially if they think it is also in the interests of the free world. In 1940, the British were up to their necks in water that was rising fast. Over 750 British-flagged merchant ships and fishing vessels were sunk by enemy action. Additionally, the Royal Navy lost dozens of warships, including 1 aircraft carrier, 2 cruisers, and over 20 destroyers.

Germany conquered Denmark, Norway, the Netherlands, Belgium, and France in just six weeks.

Churchill said the only thing that really scared him in the war was the u boat threat. Much of British food, raw materials, all its oil etc was imported.

In 1940, German U-boats sank over 470 Allied merchant ships, totalling more than 2.4 million gross register tons.

The turning point in the war for the British and their allies, to give the some hope, was not until Oct / Nov 42, north Africa. The British will dump when it suits them. Ask the Rhodesians.

Dev missed a great opportunity if he wanted a U.I.