When Nations Lose the Right to Say No

JohnRock · 23-04-2026 08:54PM #1

What actually happens to democracy if a country can’t really change course, even when policies are clearly hurting people?

The whole idea of democracy is pretty simple: we vote people in, they make decisions, and if it goes badly, we vote differently next time.

But looking at how things work in the European Union this isn't always true.

Ireland is a good example of this:

Lisbon Treaty: Irish voters said no the first time. Then we voted again and got a yes. You can argue the details, but it definitely felt like "wrong answer, try again".
2010 bailout: When the banks collapsed, Ireland basically had to take on massive debt to protect European banks. Whether that was economically necessary or not, it wasn’t really a free choice for the Irish government.
Corporation tax: The 12.5% rate has been central to Ireland’s economy for decades. Then comes pressure from bigger EU countries, and suddenly we’re moving toward a 15% global minimum. "Voluntary"… but was it really?
Migration pressures: Totally fair to help people in need, but smaller countries like Ireland are dealing with housing shortages and infrastructure strain. Feels like decisions are being made at a level far removed from local reality.
Fishing industry: Irish waters are rich, but quotas haven’t really favoured Irish fishermen.

A lot of major decisions affecting Irish people are being made outside Ireland, in places like Brussels or Frankfurt, where the impact of those decisions are far removed from the source.

https://societyplaybook.com/the-democratic-deficit-when-nations-lose-the-right-to-say-no/

Podge_irl · 24-04-2026 12:45PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058437456/when-nations-lose-the-right-to-say-no

Lisbon Treaty: Irish voters said no the first time, some of the major reasons for the rejection were analysed and even when fairly spurious, steps were made to assuage concerns and the population were asked if, with those issues corrects, it was now ok. How people being this up as anti-democratic is utterly beyond me.

2010 Bailout: The Bank Guarantee as a decision made by the Irish govt. We did not have to do it, and in fact it was viewed by some as Ireland attempting to shore up their domestic banking industry and possibly cause some capital flight to the country. It was entirely our own decision and mess.

Corporation Tax: The global 15% minimum was an OECD initiative, not EU. And the only way to tackle potential tax evasion is to attack it in a global manner. We were entirely within our rights to keep our tax at 12.5% and sundered all good will with the rest of the world, but that hardly seems a good option. This is just fair and reasonable negotiation.

Migration Pressures: Ireland is still broadly able to set its own migration policies. What there is, from the EU level, is an attempt to at least share some of the burden that frontier states are facing. This is just part of being in a club.

Fishing Industry: The quotas don't favour Irish fishermen - they are not really supposed to. This is the deal we signed up to.

Seth Brundle · 24-04-2026 09:39PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058437456/when-nations-lose-the-right-to-say-no

What is that society playbook website youve linked to? It just seems to be some right leaning blog

astrofool · 24-04-2026 10:03PM

It sounds like they want every other country to follow their rules, the entire premise of the OP is hypocritical and unresearched.

ancapailldorcha · 25-04-2026 07:41PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058437456/when-nations-lose-the-right-to-say-no

You began with AI slop and went downhill from there.

These are just nonsense Irexiter tropes. Look at the UK. Has Brexit made it stronger, more influential and more democratic?

h2005 · 25-04-2026 07:48PM

Posting AI arguments should be a ban.

ancapailldorcha · 25-04-2026 07:54PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124421806#Comment_124421806

The text is presumably dumped from that link. I think only the image is ai slop.

magicbastarder · 27-04-2026 09:35AM

that'd be equally lazy, but the link does not seem to exist on the site.

though - FWIW, there's an article on that site about how farmers could earn extra income. the OP has posted a thread on boards about how he's written an article about how farmers could earn extra income (despite openly acknowledging he knows nothing about farming).

so the OP may well be the person behind the link posted.

maccored · 17-05-2026 08:25PM

realistically its not that we're been forced into revoting for FFG every election. ITs that the electorate is basically stupid and WILL vote the opposite way when told to, rather than sticking to their guns. Last general election only half the place voted - theres your problem

RobertKK · 18-05-2026 10:09PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124418479#Comment_124418479

These are the real fact ☝️

Hotblack Desiato · 23-05-2026 10:22PM

Your picture is AI dreck, your post appears to be also.

Lisbon Treaty: Irish voters said no the first time. Then we voted again and got a yes. You can argue the details, but it definitely felt like "wrong answer, try again".

We voted no on a low turnout with all sorts of nonsense and lies from the No campaign. There were changes made to the treaty, voters were more engaged, the lies were exposed, and we voted Yes on a higher turnout. So why is the first vote valid but not the second?

We voted No to divorce in 1986, should we have not been given the chance to vote on it again in 1995?

2010 bailout: When the banks collapsed, Ireland basically had to take on massive debt to protect European banks. Whether that was economically necessary or not, it wasn’t really a free choice for the Irish government.

That was because of FF's insanely stupid bank guarantee. A decision which is entirely on them.

Corporation tax: The 12.5% rate has been central to Ireland’s economy for decades. Then comes pressure from bigger EU countries, and suddenly we’re moving toward a 15% global minimum. "Voluntary"… but was it really?

That's not down to the EU, It's an OECD thing.

In October 2021 some 136 countries agreed to enforce a corporate tax rate of at least 15% from 2023 after the talks on a minimum rate led by OECD for a decade.

And what's wrong with more money into the Irish exchequer from corporations which can well afford it? Do you have a single example of a company which pulled out of Ireland because of this change?

Migration pressures: Totally fair to help people in need, but smaller countries like Ireland are dealing with housing shortages and infrastructure strain. Feels like decisions are being made at a level far removed from local reality.#

Every developed country is dealing with housing shortages and infrastructure strain.

Fishing industry: Irish waters are rich, but quotas haven’t really favoured Irish fishermen.

Ah for feck's sake, not this again. For decades we did next to nothing to exploit Irish waters, so what's the point of whinging now? Irlgov made a decision on EU entry to trade off fishing rights against gains for farmers, you might disagree but it was a decision made by an elected Irish government.

Hotblack Desiato · 24-05-2026 01:39PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124477385#Comment_124477385

Ah the old "people don't vote the way I want them to because they're stupid". 🙄

Don't pay any attention to the turnout figures. A lot of people are on the voting register in multiple places, councils have been very poor at following up when people move away. The register is being cleaned up but it'll take years

maccored · 16-06-2026 11:08PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124495313#Comment_124495313

no no - its a case of people dont vote but i do want them to. If they cant be arsed voting, then they should shut up and sit in the corner as far as Im concerned. No point whinging about the gov but doing nothing to change it.

When Nations Lose the Right to Say No

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