Dublin - Metrolink (Swords to Charlemont only)

L1011 · 10-05-2026 11:56AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124457253#Comment_124457253

I wonder do Live Nation pay anything for that?

You're ushered around the gate line at Brighton station going to the Amex but thats because the club pay Southern seven figures a year for the privilege! Free travel from the city and satellite towns was a planning condition

bk · 10-05-2026 12:08PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124457006#Comment_124457006

We are taking the Copenhagen approach here, just slightly longer trains. Fully automated, short trains, high frequency, smaller station boxes, cut and cover only, only once entrance, only two or three escalators, etc.

Versus “traditional” Metros with long trains, very large stations with multiple entrances, dozens of escalators, etc.

I’m shocked that you posted that video, I assume you watched it and heard what he said and you still don’t get it!

bk · 10-05-2026 12:14PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124457550#Comment_124457550

Because they ended up with a network of four Metro lines for less money than our single Metro line! Some of those lines cost about the same as a Luas line while have more then twice the capacity.

Imagine for a moment rather then building two Luas lines, we built two of these sort of Metro lines in their place 20 years ago. We wouldn’t have the crazy overcrowding that Luas now suffers from.

Though keep in mind that Copenhagen also has 7 S-Train lines, so their Metro plays a slightly different role, more about getting around inside the city, then bringing people into the city. A bit more like Luas on steroids.

orangerhyme · 10-05-2026 12:21PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124456847#Comment_124456847

I don't think he intended to stay here very long anyway but it's be nice if he stayed for the procurement process.

Yeah it sounds like he jumped at the first good offer down under.

The Mathematician · 10-05-2026 12:29PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124457576#Comment_124457576

That would be interesting to know, they are giving up a lot of revenue. There are extra costs as well with the people directing the crowds (I think these are LUAS staff but I am not sure).

p_haugh · 10-05-2026 01:15PM

Similar happens after matches at the Aviva, they have staff at the overflow entrance waving people on and telling them to not bother tagging on, and then at the destination stations they usually have the barriers open (and even in the case of Blackrock station yesterday, the night gate was left open)

jwm121 · 10-05-2026 01:23PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124457253#Comment_124457253

Yes the majority don't tag on. There's no possible way for security to check for paying customers anyway because they are so packed. I've always wondered though is tag on and off the only way of counting passenger numbers on the system? The numbers could be quite off if so with the amount of 3arena gigs per year plus the daily number of people who just don't pay for it.

The Mathematician · 10-05-2026 01:31PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124457730#Comment_124457730

It is not just people not tagging on, it is the staff telling people not to tag on (I assume to get people on the LUAS as quickly as possible). I got told off once for tagging on.

ArcadiaJunction · 10-05-2026 02:28PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124457597#Comment_124457597

fair enough then that explains it

Sam Russell · 10-05-2026 03:40PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124457739#Comment_124457739

Bear in mind that a huge number of people have free travel passes.

KrisW1001 · 10-05-2026 05:17PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124457597#Comment_124457597

Strictly speaking, Copenhagen's 7 S lines aren't massively beyond what Dublin could achieve: they're five branches off a high capacity trunk running though the city centre. Put DART Underground in place, and Dublin immediately gets at least "five" lines by the same measure (six if Navan is in place). To me, DU rather than Metro North was the bigger loss when everything was canned in 2011.

Regarding Metrolink, I fully agree with you : the ability to increase capacity has been designed in from the start, and if we start to bump against that, then a better use of money world be a second line serving a wider, roughly parallel corridor rather than trying to rebuild active stations.

Metrolink should have been billed as "Metro 1" from the get go, because once it's in operation, people will start looking for a line in their parts of the city..

L1011 · 10-05-2026 05:26PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124457986#Comment_124457986

And they are still required to tag on by the FTP T&Cs

The number of people travelling with FTPs has likely fallen since random bits of cardboard stopped being accepted a few months ago

BlueSkyDreams · 10-05-2026 06:24PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124458269#Comment_124458269

Do we know approx how many users dont tag on or off?

Anecdotal & I dont use Luas often but i do notice a lot of people dont tag on or off & thats people of all ages.

L1011 · 10-05-2026 06:43PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124458494#Comment_124458494

Never seen a figure. I know a lot of taxsaver holders dont tag either, because they'll get a moan from the inspector at worst

I have also heard Irish Rail RPU specifically complaining about taxsaver holders not tagging at Docklands and it showing up as less used in IE internal figures than it really is. I suspect it has a huge Taxsaver user %

murphaph · 10-05-2026 09:16PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124456000#Comment_124456000

It's better to just build a larger box and shorter platform if a longer platform isn't going to be required for 30+ years. It's not just the (relatively small) initial additional cost of the longer platform. You have 30+ years of maintenance of that extra bit of platform in every station to pay for. It has to be cleaned and policed, maintained and renovated. If it's not actually needed, it is far more sensible to stick up a false wall and not fit out the platform to full station box length until it is really needed.

bk · 11-05-2026 11:04AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124458235#Comment_124458235

With DART+ you will get 5/6 lines anyway, you don't need DU for that. Northern line, Southern line, West, South West, M3 Parkway (eventually Navan) and arguably Howth.

Interestingly that S-Train tunnel in Copenhagen acts as a bottleneck to capacity. They were considering something very similar to Dart Underground, a 5km tunnel, to relief it, but scrapped that idea as they considered it too expensive. Instead they have opted to convert their S-Trains to fully automated operation, so that they can instead boost the capacity of the existing "Tunnel" by increasing frequency.

Also interesting to note that the Auckland project that the CEO previously worked on, CRL and is criticising in this video looks a lot like Dart Underground. 3.5km tunnel with just two underground stations, which connects to the existing above ground heavy rail electrified commuter rail trains similar to DART. It is ending up costing 5.5 billion for such a short tunnel and two stations! With DU being a 7km tunnel and having 5 underground stations, could the price tag for it top 10 billion?

As for Metrolink, yes, there will likely be other options taking strain off ML. There will almost certainly be a Luas line running up Swords Road and while it may not go all the way the the airport (or maybe eventually it will), that would certainly take some of the strain off the inner sections. Finglas Luas might end up being extended to the Airport too. Perhaps heavy rail will get to the airport too.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124457730#Comment_124457730

Well there are systems that can count passengers called Automatic Passenger Counting (APC) systems, basically cameras over the doors which use software to count passengers getting on and off.

I'm not sure if the current Luas vehicles have it. Interestingly it looks like the new DART+ trains will have it. I'd assume the new Luas trams to be ordered so will get it too and probably any other new trains (Stadler ones I wonder?).

It makes a lot more sense to count passengers this way, they using tag-on/off. It shows the real numbers counting free travel pass, taxsaver users, etc.

A poster in another thread mentioned that the Irish Rail gates count passengers passing through the gate, even if the gate is open and they don't tag on.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124458615#Comment_124458615

The annual passenger survey should help adjust for that. Like if the passenger survey finds 20% higher usage then the tickets, then they can apply that to the year round figures. But it is strange, are the gates left open at Docklands? And what about gates counting passengers even if open?

Either way ATP hopefully coming with the new Class 90k will fix this issue.

Dodge · 11-05-2026 05:40PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124458494#Comment_124458494

I tag on, but practically never tag off. Absolutely no benefit to me to do so. I certainly amn’t queuing to tag off

BlueSkyDreams · 11-05-2026 05:52PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124460930#Comment_124460930

Is that because the cost of your trip is not affected by tagging off?

Dodge · 12-05-2026 02:26PM

Yes. Exactly that.

L1011 · 12-05-2026 02:29PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124459878#Comment_124459878

Gates were open probably 95%+ of the time from when the station reopened (2021?) after the pandemic anyway; and quite a lot before. But it the gates can count passages when open it shouldnt affect the total usage figures, just cause more guesswork as to specific destinations.

Plenty of other stations have at least one way out without a gateline though, e.g. Clonsilla P2, Maynooth P2, so non-taggers (Taxsaver holders being the main group here) won't be counted there.

I won't queue to tag off my Taxsaver at Maynooth when its busy, but I'm not a fan of arguing with ticket inspectors so I always tag on!

CatInABox · 13-05-2026 08:41PM

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/2026/05/13/metrolink-could-undermine-st-stephens-green-park/

Is Strassenwolf writing to the Irish Times now?

I jest, it was just the mention of College Green that brought that particular poster to mind. Shame that the IT just print anything really, not knowing how many obstacles exist to even minor changes to the route.

Kermit.de.frog · 13-05-2026 08:55PM

If they were to follow his advice you would definitely be talking 7 years absolute minimum just to get through the whole design and planning process and judicial interference.

It's not perfect, there are shortcomings with what is granted but because of our planning, judicial and governmental deficiencies it's not a runner to make such changes now.

Our processes here do not lend themselves to such nimbleness in fine tuning infrastructure.

Pete_Cavan · 13-05-2026 09:34PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124466136#Comment_124466136

"nimbleness in fine tuning infrastructure" is complete bollox. There is a huge amount of in-depth documentation and reports to justify every aspect of Metrolink, including assessment of multiple alternatives.

The whole thing is a giant interdependency, changing one small aspect would have knock-on effects across the project. "nimbleness in fine tuning" is how you end up with a disaster like the National Children's Hospital.

Not allowing people to tinker with infrastructure plans based on some half-baked notion they have is not a flaw in the system. If anything, we give people with no clue too much input so don't pretend like other countries allow for "nimbleness in fine tuning infrastructure".

Kermit.de.frog · 13-05-2026 10:43PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124466251#Comment_124466251

You completely missed the point as usual and jumped to the assumption I thought his plan is a good one. Whether it is good or not is irrelevant.

What is relevant is the amount of time it takes to get anything done here. That's the point.

Like I said this country has serious governmental, planning and judicial deficiencies it needs to resolve.

Consonata · 13-05-2026 11:29PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124466422#Comment_124466422

Most countries don't do stuff like change platform lengths when a project has already been approved and gone to tender.

This isn't a governmental deficiency, it's just common sense.

GusherING · 14-05-2026 06:06AM

Superficially, the point about building the station under the rebuilt shopping centre makes it sense. You can well imagine the angst when two corners of Stephen's Green are under simultaneous construction at the same time. But we are way past the point now of adding tweaks to the route of the metro.

Pete_Cavan · 14-05-2026 06:36AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124466422#Comment_124466422

I didn't miss the point at all and I don't assume you thought his plan is a good one, I didn't refer to that proposal at all. I addressed your broader point about our lack of "nimbleness in fine tuning infrastructure" and now you say your point is "the amount of time it takes to get anything done here".

Fine tuning would only result in it taking even long to get things done so your statements are entirely contradictory. Allowing nimbleness in fine tuning infrastructure would only exasperate our governmental, planning and judicial deficiencies.

Pete_Cavan · 14-05-2026 06:44AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124466643#Comment_124466643

Moving the station would change the tunnel alignment and at a minimum impact the stations either side and alter the curvature of the tunnel. It probably isn't possible to change the station location but to find that out, you are basically redesigning the tunnel and the city centre stations which have very little wriggle room.

I really don't see the issue with two corners of Stephen's Green are under construction at the same time (should that happen), there has been multiple major construction projects happening around the Green on and off for years.

bk · 14-05-2026 10:58AM

Putting aside the utter madness of redesigning a Metro after it has gained a railway order and gone to tender, technically it wouldn’t work anyway.

Stephen’s Green Shopping Center isn’t large enough to fit a Metrolink station box. It could fit east to west, but not North to south, not even close. East to West would be useless given the alignment of the Metro and where it needs to go too and from.

The only place it would fit in this area would be under the park itself, but I’d assume this letter writer would moan about that as they are already moaning about a dozen trees being cut down for the project and oh no, people walking through the park.

within parks; it is also about avoiding turning them into pedestrian corridors for mass transit interchange.

I really don’t understand this bit, are we really moaning about people actually using a park and walking through it! Surely that is a very positive thing, great for people’s mental health to get some greenery and nature on their way too and from work.

He also mentions putting it up at the newly pedestrianised College Green, again, wrong orientation, wouldn’t fit North to South unless you are planning to knock Trinity!

Idiotic stuff.

jwm121 · 14-05-2026 12:51PM

I'm curious and not suggesting anything be changed now. Why wasn't there a smaller entrance designed for SSG or small entrances at each side of the street like older systems in other countries? I'm guessing to do with escalators, lift access etc.

Dublin - Metrolink (Swords to Charlemont only)

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