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Scottish Football Thread

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,804 ✭✭✭✭Jelle1880


    When did Rangers get a decision and others were told to put up and shut up ? Are you just imagining scenarios ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,062 ✭✭✭el Fenomeno


    You don't need an online tool to tell you that's AI, look at the Celtic crest on his jersey.

    This, however, is not AI.

    1000050005.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,819 ✭✭✭jacool


    "Any objective viewer"

    At least I can accept your comment, as you are always objective as regards Scottish football.

    "we nearly need to expect that some strange decisions might happen. It might be incompetence or "honest mistakes" but we're going to have to stay calm. If VAR intervenes or doesn't intervene where it should perhaps and an inexplicable call is made we'll have to be prepared for that possibility and stay focused on getting the 3 points no matter what happens.

    An extra hurdle to overcome and I'm sure MON and the players will be wide to it."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,894 ✭✭✭Patrick2010


    Reminds me of the Rovers v Celje game in Tallaght when Rovers got a penalty for an identical issue, its at the start of this video.

    All Goals v Celje l UEFA Europa League l 15 August 2024 - YouTube



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭adaminho


    Surely Celtic drawing would've made for a better spectacle on final day with they needing to win by 3 goals as opposed to 1? Everyone remembers Mickey Thomas' goal to win the league at Anfield on GD or Agüero's last minute goal.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,350 ✭✭✭Acosta


    Chris Boyd made some tit of himself last night. Which is nothing new, I know.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,819 ✭✭✭jacool


    Its not a good look for the VAR process either, because they only had one camera angle to show the referee, and I would consider that inconclusive. Judging on that video alone, I wouldn't be able to say 100% that the ball struck his hand.

    VAR is supposed to look at clear and obvious errors, yet somehow or other the referee had decided in 20 seconds.

    The player doesn't deliberately handle the ball, or make his body shape bigger as the ball is hitting his head anyway.

    Also, the force that the ball goes away at doesn't like it would if it was just a handball.

    I understand that this is just one decision and I could get swamped by "did you not see the one at Falkirk, etc." but just saying, in isolation, this decision appears incorrect, based purely on the bare evidence was shown to the ref.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,681 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    A lot of the Scottish pundits and, surprisely, some of the non-Scottish pundits made a tit of themselves last night. ITV national news at 18:30 had a segment about the game and how plucky Hearts could win the title after 65 years later. A lot of them were caught up in the fairytale story.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,534 ✭✭✭Dogsdodogsstuff


    I’d go a step further. The power he got on that header meant that whatever (not even clear it touched his hand) contact on his hand , the ball was going out of any danger zone regardless.

    They’ve made a balls of the penalty rules. That’s not a penalty , no amount of bullshit “oh but his hand is high and the rule is more strict if his hand is high” crap will change that. I sometimes wonder if the rule makers ever played the sport.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,681 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    Also, the force that the ball goes away at doesn't like it would if it was just a handball.

    Last nights review of the game on Sky

    Screenshot 2026-05-14 092159.png


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭adaminho


    The player doesn't deliberately handle the ball, or make his body shape bigger as the ball is hitting his head anyway.

    Arm above shoulder height is an unnatural position and has always been a penalty.

    Also, the force that the ball goes away at doesn't like it would if it was just a handball.

    Basic physics and the laws of motion say otherwise. Have you ever played Kerbs as a kid?

    Bottom line is the only effect it has on the title race is Celtic only have to win by 1 instead of 3.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 36,027 ✭✭✭✭The_Kew_Tour




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 36,027 ✭✭✭✭The_Kew_Tour


    Kris Boyd does it everytime..come on. If your going play that dumb no point in arguing

    EVENFLOW



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,534 ✭✭✭Dogsdodogsstuff


    Arm above shoulder height isn’t automatically a penalty though and it never was, they used to apply more common sense. The law still considers whether the arm position is a natural consequence of the player’s movement/jump.

    The whole debate is whether his arm is high because he’s in an aerial duel and being impeded by the Celtic player or whether he’s simply made himself unnaturally bigger. It’s not clear on that.

    Also, “did it touch the hand?” and “was it a clear-and-obvious VAR overturn?” are two separate questions, there’s two major elements that are very much debatable.

    As for the physics point , nobody’s saying the ball can’t deflect off a hand because of the direction/spin. People are saying the replay angles aren’t conclusive enough to remove all doubt.

    Unless there’s some silver bullet unshown footage that VAR had but didn’t show , there’s nothing clear about it, no amount of selective photo stills will change it. I’ve no skin in the game , it was a shocking decision because there’s no way the VAR official could be sure it was a handball , therefore he guessed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,804 ✭✭✭✭Jelle1880


    Wait, that's your argument ? Because Kris Boyd said it ? The only reason he and/or Sutton are there are to provide drama, anyone taking him serious hasn't been paying attention.

    Btw, if you're going to accuse others of playing dumb maybe you would care to provide some examples of what you claimed ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,681 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    His arm is in a natural position for elbowing Trusty - which he did



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭adaminho




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,804 ✭✭✭✭Jelle1880


    'Arm above shoulder height is an unnatural position and has always been a penalty'

    Apart from when it wasn't, of course. For example Sterling against Hearts who had his arm above the shoulder, the ball hits the top of his arm below the jersey line and Collum came out saying it wasn't a penalty because he was going for the ball.

    edit:



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,224 ✭✭✭✭TheCitizen


    I’m not pretending to be objective.

    In this instance on this particular decision. You saw the clip of the penalty?; if you did and you’re objective then you’d agree that the right decision was arrived at



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 123 ✭✭JorgeL


    and why wouldn’t they? Any neutral (that cares) would want Hearts to win over those two other teams. Not everybody that isn’t a rangers fan has to like celtic and for them to win it.

    I’d love another team other than Bayern to win the bundesliga.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,534 ✭✭✭Dogsdodogsstuff


    The footage doing the rounds is oddly grainy and there are also AI-enhanced clips being shared, so I’d be cautious about treating any one version as definitive.

    Even if we assume that clip is accurate, the question is whether VAR and the referee could genuinely be certain from the available replay angles. Did they have a clear view or were they making a judgement from slow-motion footage that still looked inconclusive?

    The arm is high, yes, but it’s also not clear how much the Celtic player’s proximity/contact affected that position. The fact Nicholson’s other arm is down could actually support the argument that the left arm was higher because it was impeded or affected during the aerial challenge.

    For me, there are too many debatable elements: point of contact, arm position, natural movement while jumping, the Celtic player’s role in restricting the arm and whether the footage was clear enough.

    You can think it’s a penalty, but the level of debate around it surely raises the obvious question: was this really a clear and obvious error worthy of a VAR overturn?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,059 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    My viewing of it was that he jumps using his arms put as leverage to get the higest jump as possible, as players have always done.

    When he uses that final pivot down of the arms (like wings flapping) to get that last inch of height, as players have always done, while his right arm does pivot down, his left cannot because Trusty is beside him, and consequently the force of his pivot sends his left arm and hand across his forehead.

    I'm not a fan of the simplistic 'his arm/hand was in an unnatural position' in this case as it was there because of the contact with Trusty (in fact, I'm not a fan of the whole concept of 'unnatural position' at all - in football, parts of the body naturally move all over the place during movement, and it's unnatural to consciously prevent this - there's nothing more unnatural than defenders trying to cut out a cross with their arms clasped behind their back).

    If we look at factors that mitigate against a simple decision of 'unnatural position' - and this is done, because not every penalty is automatically given in such circumstances - then I wonder why it was not taken into consideration here.

    Finally, what we really are looking at is poor referees, a very cheap VAR infrastructure (number of and quality of cameras and replays) that does not support a proper implementation of VAR, and a lack of a systematic application of VAR guidelines.

    VAR was never meant to review the 'seen them given' moments. And sometimes VAR interventions are (rightly in my view) limited to incidents that really are quite blatant, and about which there is more or less immediate and universal agreement.

    Whereas in other times, a referee is invited to review a decision that, while not the only possible decision, does not constitute an error.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,681 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    Wanting Hearts to win the title is absolutely fine, letting that blind your view of incidents that happened in last nights game is not - a lot of the pundits went way over the top and made a complete fool of themselves. This penalty is now being discussed on BBC Scotland Today (which is normally reserved for political events) as if it was the biggest injustice to happen ever.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 36,027 ✭✭✭✭The_Kew_Tour


    I make it quite straight forward.

    Every penalty decision Celtic has got along with the so called penalties Rangers should have got.

    Livingston were robbed a while back at Ibrox but same people brushed that aside.

    I dont like Celtic or Rangers. (Don't hate them just they are rivals in same league ) Straight up. But the conspiracy theories about this seasons lesgue is off the scale stuff. The best ones who are all up for the banter to wind up other fans losing their **** now cause Rangers season which looked like they were going win title has blown up in their faces.

    Every fan base has idiots. Plenty Hibs lads i blocked online. But this corruption nonsense is utter bad taste and just screams bitterness like no other and its coming from prominent podcasts and players.

    EVENFLOW



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,681 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    Hearts can still win the league on Saturday, they just need to avoid a defeat in the last game.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭adaminho


    And if Celtic had only drawn last night it would be the exact same!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,819 ✭✭✭jacool


    That's fair enough.

    I am saying that what VAR showed the referee was inconclusive.

    They didn't show him the reverse photo that's doing the rounds. The referee made a call he couldn't have been confident about, and didn't take much time to decide. It just looked "off" as a call.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,154 ✭✭✭RoryMac


    I've a feeling Saturday is going to be another crazy day. Hearts have been excellent all season and I'm sure most neutral fans will be hoping they can get it across the line.

    As a Celtic fan, that MON has dragged us into the past game with the title in our control is incredible.

    Also interesting to see if Rangers can complete a historic 5 in a row



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 36,027 ✭✭✭✭The_Kew_Tour


    Only that Celtic would of had to win by 3 or 4 goals(too lazy to check)

    EVENFLOW



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