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Live in America

2456

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,540 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    Not at all. Millionaires in America know to have, and can afford to have, health insurance. Same as most middle class or professional people have VHI or similar insurance here.

    A lot of the millionaires who were in Ireland 2 decades ago ended up losing much - or in some cases all - of their wealth, due to reckless lending and behaviour from bankers among other reasons.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,139 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    I could have moved to the US over the years and would have made more than I do now. I do have a chronic illness that is managed but at times I have needed to be in hospital over the years, so I honestly wouldn't have felt confident in how the US system handles those with illnesses. On top of that, medications I've been on cost a small fortune in the US.

    That's not to mention the social problems that are only getting worse under Trump etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 25,000 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    That's all well and good: until your insurance doesn't cover the specific treatment your condition requires (or you lose your cover because of a redundancy or an unfortunately time "at will" dismissal etc.). Have a google, there's a heartbreaking amount of stories of people who've done "all the right things" (gone to college, gotten a good job, worked hard, invested in a pension etc.) and ended up destitute after undergoing cancer treatment etc.

    The way health insurance cover is linked to employment is one of the factors that has lead to American workers having so few employment rights and wildly unhealthy work/life balance.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,422 ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    There's a sold half a million bankruptcies every year and there are tens of millions of uninsured Americans. It reminds me of the Joker's line in The Dark Knight were he says that you're one bad day away from being me.

    I've never understood the American temporarily embarrassed millionaire mentality. It's so much easier to be poor over there than to be wealthy.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8 fields1019


    Do you mean easier to be poor in America or you are more likely to be born poor/become poor than wealthy? Poverty isn't ideal, but I'd argue that poor people in Switzerland or the Scandinavian countries have it much better than poor people in the U.S.

    And it's funny that Sleepy mentioned cancer because it reminded me of the TV show Breaking Bad. If the story took place in the UK or Ireland it would have been a ridiculous plot because people don't go bankrupt from getting cancer treatments here.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,540 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    Fact is, most insurance plans in America do cover essential treatments like chemotherapy, radiation, and surgery. Not saying it is ideal, but they do have much cheaper sales taxes (vat here at the standard rate is 23%), dearer petrol etc etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭plodder


    I was searching for something else and came across this thread by accident. Two things I found out recently that nobody in the liberal Irish media would ever tell you.

    The healthcare system in the US is much better for old people than here. I remember seeing a highly paid doctor over there quoted saying he was looking forward to retiring because he would qualify for Medicare then. I suspect the system is not as bad as it's made out to be for younger people either, but you do pay an arm and a leg for health insurance. That said, there is no country in the world that has a developed healthcare system, and is not struggling to contain its cost.

    Second, the equivalent of the state pension there is way more generous than ours, so long as you actually worked and paid taxes your working life. Not like here, where the pension is the same whether you worked, or sat on your hole for 40 years.

    That's not saying that I'd move there, or that it's some utopia. Far from it. But, I wouldn't want to fall on hard times, losing my income in either place.

    “The opposite of 'good' is 'good intentions'”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭bog master


    The milk and honey is not as good as it seems. Florida seems like a great place to live, beautiful climate and NO State Income Tax. Until……….

    "The state with the highest home insurance rates happens to be one with no income tax. According to the online insurance marketplace Insurify,

    Florida has the nation’s costliest homeowners insurance, with the average annual policy running $10,675 in 2025. Home insurance in Texas, another destination celebrated for having no state income tax, averages $4,789, good for fourth-most expensive in the country."

    https://money.com/no-income-tax-states-expensive/

    Not happy with Aviva or Allianz or AA with your motor insurance premiums,,,,,,,,

    It's a similar story for car owners, who've seen average auto insurance prices increase to $2,324, up nearly 30% in two years. And, yes, according to Insurify,

    "many of the states with the highest car insurance prices are places with no income taxes: Nevada has the nation’s sixth-most expensive auto insurance costs (averaging $3,207 for full coverage in 2025), and Florida ($2,967) comes in eighth."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,139 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    About two thirds of the bankruptcies each year are due to medical debt. The US public owe about 220 billion dollars in medical debt.. It's a highly inequitable society that punishes those with illnesses.

    https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/brief/the-burden-of-medical-debt-in-the-united-states/#Share%20of%20aggregate%20total%20medical%20debt%20in%20the%20U.S.,%20by%20the%20amount%20of%20debt%20individuals%20owe,%202021



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,422 ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Do they?

    It's the most inefficient and most expensive system in the world. There is nothing to admire there.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭plodder


    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/poll-are-satisfied-health-insurance-quarter-report-denials-delays-rcna248908

    Overall, 82% of Americans said they’re satisfied with their health care coverage, including a third who said they are very satisfied with their current coverage. The group that reported being the most satisfied were older adults, with 9 in 10 Americans over 65 years old saying they were satisfied. And 42% in that age group reported being “very satisfied.”

    Roughly 9 in 10 of those who have public health insurance coverage through Medicare or Medicaid also reported being satisfied with coverage, compared to 77% of those with private health care coverage.

    You can make a case that there's a cohort that falls through the cracks, but the country is still a democracy (albeit under threat). The health system costs a lot but because most people are satisfied with it, neither party will touch it.

    “The opposite of 'good' is 'good intentions'”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,422 ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    25% of people in that survey said that they had either been denied coverage or facing delays:

    But there is an undercurrent of frustration in the findings, too, with nearly one-quarter of respondents saying they’d been denied coverage or faced a delay from their insurance in the last two years.

    It does seem like there's not a lot of political will to change it and most Americans have no idea how other systems such as Germany's public insurance or Britain's National Health Service work. One thing I've noticed consuming American culture for most of my life is that certain topics are just forbidden. One is healthcare. Another is guns. Poverty is another. Of course there are exceptions but they are quire rare.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,540 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    Average comprehensive car insurance rate are just under €2000 per year in the States. So what? Do not forget average vehicles are bigger over there, usually with more powerful engines, V6s, V8s etc. Average car length over there is 14.7 feet.

    It is a big saving not paying State income tax. Some pensioners here in Ireland like myself are paying €30,000 and €40,000 a year on our public service pensions, and paid even more tax when we were working. Was on holidays in America recently, the amount of retired Americans able to drive large SUVs, go on cruises, eat out 4 or 5 times a week, own yachts or vacation homes etc is amazing. Not like Ballyhaunis or Kanturk, thats for sure.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,986 ✭✭✭yagan


    Comparisons can be hard to make, like some US states like Tennessee, Florida and 6 others don't have a state income tax, but then they will also be the states with much higher insurance rates, property taxes and toll roads. So on paper they look great for net income, but that advantage could be more than eaten up by higher expenses.

    A relation in Florida was telling me that insuring her Corolla now costs over $300 a month in Florida, in large part due the high rate of uninsured drivers there. There's supposedly a real problem with aging boomer drivers who can't afford/get insurance anymore but can't live independently without a car, so they keep driving and crashing in increasing numbers. House insurance is really high and practically impossible in storm surge areas.

    I visited an elderly relative there years ago and it was really weird, so much of it is people living in gated communities.

    I went to the US as a young lad decades ago, back when we had very high unemployment here, it was around 20% at one stage in my hometown in the 80s. I was glad of the opportunity but a few things really jarred with me. When Ireland made the evening news in the US then it was because a car bomb had just gone off, yet the fatality rate from stray bullets in NY at that time was higher per head than deaths from the Troubles, but few people in NY talked about it. It was normalized.

    I think I knew I wouldn't be staying when I came home one evening and saw on the news a kid had killed by a stray bullet on near the metro I'd used that day in Manhattan. I couldn't get used to how normalised it was.

    They were more obsessed comparing individual five year get rich plans, and Donald Trump was constantly on Howard Stern talking about how he got the mob out of Atlantic city. BTW he was calling for the hanging of some black kids accused of killing a jogger in central park, years later those kids were exonerated of any crime in what had been a rush for justice. They're only crime was walking while black. They whole thing felt bizarre. I did go back briefly to the west coast, but that was a different type of bizarre.

    I see my nieces and nephews now embracing opportunities in the EU, rather than the old anglosphere haunts that my generation mostly went to (I did actually enjoy Australia and NZ, but not England). Plus going to third level elsewhere in the EU can be actually a lot cheaper and probably more useful in the long term with exposure to other languages.

    Thankfully I have no family reason to need to go the US anymore, those relatives I used to visit now come here more often, some are making arrangements for a permanent move.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,540 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    Do you realise that the HSE budget of €29 billion for a population of roughly 5.3 million, the average cost per Irish resident for the public health system is approximately €5,471 per year. No wonder income taxes, VAT, VRT, excise duries etc are no high in Ireland.

    By the way, many, including myself and family, pay many thousands each year for health insurance ( VHI etc ) in addition to our taxes.

    So not as black and white as you think. If you want world class experts in their fields, many of our famous people go to the States for their health treatment, even socialist Gerry Adams for surgery there just over a decade ago.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,139 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    The average annual cost of health insurance in the US is around 9000 dollars.(Employers end up paying a portion of this) You're unlikely to be spending anything near that in Ireland. On top of that, the US government spends drastically more on healthcare per person than the rest of the world, per capita they're at just under fifteen thousand dollars. But still people go bankrupt due to healthcare.

    Meanwhile I've got an incredibly sick and has been in hospital for two months. He's in a public hospital, getting fantastic care and none of us have to worry about some massive bill at the end of it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,540 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    But many of us in Ireland pay many tens of thousands a year in income tax, VAT, excise duty, high petrol and heating oil prices, VRT on cars, vat on housing etc. Ain't no such thing as a free dinner.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,422 ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    And Americans have to pay a lot more to maintain their bloated military-industrial complex and disastrous foreign wars. That money would be much better spent on healthcare and infrastructure.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,139 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    You cited the per capita cost as if it was excessive. Meanwhile insurance and the per capita cost is way higher in the US. Healthcare should not result in you being made bankrupt.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,540 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    If nobody defended the west it is arguable we would be speaking German or Russian now. You would probably prefer that.

    Instead we are known internationally as free-loaders.

    Look at Finland and Sweden. They joined NATO very rapidly in the past few years. And spend a lot more on defence than us.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,139 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    The current US government have repeatedly worked against Western interests and have destabilised the globe. Fuel crises, abandoning Ukraine etc. On top of that, the US is classified as a democracy in decline. Also worth remembering, plenty of great US leaders aspired to a far more socialized US...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,422 ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I see we've reached the point of whataboutery and responding to nonsense nobody said. I also noticed that you couldn't explain how the US' various wars made the West safer.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,540 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    Various wars like WW2 and the Cold war? Or the war to liberate little Kuwait that was invaded by Iraq ( Gulf War 1). Not saying the Americans are perfect, far from it. But would be prefer to be speaking German or Russian?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,422 ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    America didn't win WW2. Germany was collapsing and it was being overrun by the Soviets. I don't know where you're getting this drivel from.

    You've yet to explain how the trillions of dollars wasted in disastrous wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have kept the West safe.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,540 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    Abandoned Ukraine? The USA has been the single largest individual country donor of aid to Ukraine in absolute terms. About 120 billion since the war begun. Plus intelligence, etc.

    How much have we given? A few clapped out Irish army vehicles?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,139 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    Under Trump, he literally publicly attempted to humiliate Zelensky. He implied that it was their fault that they'd been invaded. They even paused sharing intelligence with Ukraine. So the US have behaved atrociously in relation to Ukraine under Trump.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,540 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    You forget both the UK and USA sent aid to the Russians, and fought them elsewhere. If the Germans could have concentrated their forces on one front against the Russians, guess who would have won? Besides, the USA supplied over $11 billion in materials (equal to over $180 billion in 2026 value), including nearly 400,000 trucks, thousands of tanks and planes, and large amounts of food to the Russians.

    You do not have any gratitude for the Americans and others protecting us - imperfect as they were - in WW2 and the Cold war. Fair enough.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,422 ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I'm still waiting to hear about the existential threats posed by Afghanistan and Iraq.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,244 ✭✭✭growleaves


    There's no way to hedge against misfortune really. You could have died on an NHS waiting list before a specialist has looked at your tumour. The Irish Cancer Society are warning people this year that that delays in cancer tests and treatment are causing deaths.

    All systems of social organisation face the same problem that there isn't unlimited money so some people will fall by the wayside.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,540 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    Not as atrociously as Ireland. We are much closer to Ukraine but have not stepped up to the plate with any worthwhile military assistance.



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