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Tesla Talk 2

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 35,672 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    That's quite literally what the most expensive dashcams do hence they carry price tags of 500 euro plus. They work with RAW or LOG footage or offer lower compression. Most folks aren't going to pay that so cheaper stuff compresses the imagery for higher storage capabilities. Again most consumers prefer more record time or a balance mix between the two.

    But as I said he's talking absolute bluster. This is doing nothing that Sony hasn't been doing with their sensors for years. And most new high end smartphones can be switched over to store in these formats for processing footage later on.

    This isn't offering anything new or groundbreaking but he is trying to make people think it is. For what purpose I've no idea but he's pretty boring at this point with his limited grasp of the subjects and bluster in which he describes mundane technical tasks that are extremely common. This isn't Tesla specific, it isn't even specific to this use case either.

    "Look we count the photons and amp up the giga spectrum to enhance the gamma spectrum so we have infrared vision capabilities" (or something to that effect) . Yes I understand this is boring stuff to most but it's the reason I'm annoyed by the marketing of said features.

    The actual interesting stuff is in the hardware and what it's doing with the imagery from a decision capability and what is onboard versus what's being off boarded. (Cloud compute)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 370 ✭✭prosaic


    But you are going to the opposite end of the spectrum and saying Tesla are doing nothing new or interesting.

    The new or interesting piece in it is how raw camera data is sent to the neural net input directly and in real time with end to end NN producing control output based on this high fidelty input data. Other car makers are not at the same level but have begun to follow suit.

    You need serious compute power and input integration to achieve the level of data-input to control-output. Tesla are well ahead in this area also. They thought they could achieve autonomous driving with HW3 but it turned out they needed more computing power. HW4 is good but will be improved upon.

    You are also trying to suggest that Musk knows nothing of the technical details, which is something his detractors try to suggest as much and as often as possible without any evidence. His engineers at Tesla/SpacexAI, have often told quite the opposite, of how he gets right into the detail with clear depth of understanding and ability to re-think every detail.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 35,672 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Other manufacturers most definitely are storing the files in LOG or RAW and processing off of that , they are not 'following suit' this is literally the standard in the industry of image processing.

    Even on the basic smell test this stuff falls short and it's dishonest.

    Tesla's prowess is Not in this. Their prowess is on the LLM use in image processing and the volume they've processed at. Nothing whatsoever to do with the methodology of storing and working with raw data sets. That's simply not true.

    Can we at least deal in facts here. They do a lot of good things without this stuff being fluffed up as ground breaking.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 370 ✭✭prosaic


    Perhaps we can agree that you are largely right, if a little bent on Musk/Tesla destruction.

    "LLM use in image processing" - it's considerably more than that and not really an LLM. It contains an array of interacting neural network components, from CNNs for visual abstraction and transformer parts (a bit like LLMs but different) for world model and reasoning. There are multiple NNs for different aspects and levels all working together to produce the flow from pixel data to control output in real time (millisecond level reaction time).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 35,672 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Bent on Tesla destruction? No I've never once ever inferred that. In fact quite the opposite. I have said what I think they need to be doing to compete and excel against their competitors. Something they are more than capable off. Whilst jettisoning the bobble head.

    Fyi 'neural net' as fluffy calls it is actually LLM. He bastardised the technology terms to make them sound fancy to investors as LLM let's face it is boring. It's similar type of architectural make-up that is used by Google for their image analysis. There is nothing neural about it. It's simply LLMs working together on task specific roles.

    Id suggest avoid getting grok to summarise Elons press releases.

    Tesla have a fantastic analysis engine in fact it perhaps is one of their greatest in house IP. But it can only get better within a combined system.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 370 ✭✭prosaic


    Ahem, LLMs are (or are based on) neural networks. Tesla uses transformers (which LLMs do also, but not quite in the same way). Tesla also use CNNs (Convolutional Neural Network) at the vision input layers. Neural networks all over.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 35,672 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    We're getting into symantics here your describing the layman term of how LLMs engage with each other architecturally. This is basic LLM that is used across the AI industry. No one is calling this by it's marketing term. Common parlance would actually be AI as it's the buzzword. Elons sticking with Neural because it's helpful for him to pretend it's differentiator. (Marketing)

    I digress, we are widely down a path again for no gain.

    I see Rivian are in talks with building in house Lidar to circumvent tariff and other restrictions. Also vertical integration prospects. A smart move on the face of it .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 370 ✭✭prosaic


    Fuzzy logic there. I wonder do you know what a neural network is, how that relates to LLMs, and that there are other forms of NN. Not, by any means, symantics, marketing terminology or buzzwords, but rather, technical terminolgy. Musk is describing the technology detail to an audience that understands this detail.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 35,672 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    He's not and I do. He doesnt describe things in technical detail he uses superlatives consistently. anyway lets move on

    Post edited by listermint on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,062 ✭✭✭MojoMaker


    Ah here 🙄



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 35,672 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    __



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,873 ✭✭✭John arse




  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,579 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 528 ✭✭✭rodneytrotter15




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 35,672 ✭✭✭✭listermint




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    Stay Free



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 61,076 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Something to back that up @...Ghost... from a reliable source is that Belgium looks likely to approve FSD next with only very minor testing (5k km) to be done to see if the RDW approved software works equally well in a Belgian setting

    A bit silly this as it has been tested all over Europe, in the demo drives alone, but I guess a bit of a box ticking exercise

    I wonder which other EU countries will be early, which will be late, which will be the luddites trying their utmost to stop it?

    "Make no mistake. The days of the internal combustion engine are definitely numbered" - Quentin Willson, 1997



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    I might bite the bullet before FSD becomes sub only. I have my MY AWD less than a year. FSD at the moment is pretty useless here and the standard AP works fine for my needs on the motorway.

    The car won't be sold for at least 5 years and it's likely to be kept for many more than that. Paying a sub over the long term will work out more expensive and its likely to increase beyond €100 p/m. I'm still not happy that it is unlikely I can transfer the SW to another car later. Because of this, I am much less likely to buy a new Tesla in the future.

    I like to drive, but the idea of getting the boring commute done by my car is very attractive. Remote summon would be special if they ever allow that. Get the car to drop me off and collect me. Super 😁

    Stay Free



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,579 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    I can understand this.
    It’s a bit like construction products.
    tested anywhere within the EU in an EU test house, they can be used in Europe but they must meet local regulations too. So sometimes it may need tweaks for specific regions. Hence the NSAI Agrement Cert process for Ireland.

    Post edited by Gumbo on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,573 ✭✭✭Grumpypants


    I actually like the subscription option. I'd never buy it for €7500 as I just don't drive that much, but I'll defo take an occasional month for the novelty.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 61,076 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    "Make no mistake. The days of the internal combustion engine are definitely numbered" - Quentin Willson, 1997



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    If its owned on the vehicle and you know you’ll be keeping it for years, it can make more sense buying it.

    Monthly subs are not likely to stay at €99. I can foresee them selling limited tiers where you pay a sub based on factors like road use, time of use, and time limited use.

    Look at what X have recently done with Grok. Subscribers reporting time capped voice use with no prior communication. Reddit has blown up with reports on it. Apparently X are scaling up and building more infrastructure to manage the load. I use grok in the car and have noticed it dropping out often during my commute.

    Stay Free



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 35,672 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    It appears on the face of it they're not. Musk signed a deal last week with his arch nemesis on anthropic to lease out their infrastructure to anthropic. He had alot of unused space which he wasn't scaling Grok into, there seems to be somewhat of a switch away from xAI being a core product. It's unclear why though. But the anthropic deal is a big one, that's capacity that was ear marked for xAI originally.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 370 ✭✭prosaic


    As I understand it Colossus 1 was under-utilised as they had Colossus 2 up and running. The next version of grok is being trained on Colossus 2. Current grok is partly running there also and partly using external cloud services. It's revenue from their old system.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 442 ✭✭tppytoppy


    Nyland did 1000km last night in m3 sr. Not clear if it had sunwoda or CATL batteries . Good result of 9h36. He got great charge speeds. If they move over to home produced 4680 batteries then the charger speed and range will be impacted. The m3sr is a car I would recommend. It would not be if the 4680 is introduced without YouTuber doing heavy testing on it first.

    Oh, the matrix headlights were not good at all. Bjorn was laughing predicting when blinded truck drivers would flash him.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,382 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 442 ✭✭tppytoppy


    Teslabjornlive channel



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,930 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Me neither but to be fair I unsubbed after he begged his viewers for money to fund his lavish house and sold part of the channel.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,306 ✭✭✭cunnifferous


    Haha what!? Tell me more!

    I found out another Science channel I follow, Veritasium, sold out to some private equity crowd a while ago too.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 378 ✭✭evftw


    He's a bit spoiled in my opinion but can't fault the great service he does and have done for the public regarding EV testing. And with that train of thought I try hard not to join the pitch fork wielding cancel mob. The way I see it is that we are not perfect, have different opinions, but if you provide good factual info you have a free range as long as you operate within the law. There are enough baseless opinion throwing "influencers" in the net who actively try to stiffle others who are more successful or famous or original than themselves are.



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