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Nuclear - future for Ireland?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,965 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Why do you keep rehashing this idea of batteries supplying the grid with anything of any significance when needed when you have been repeatedly shown the financial nonsense it is.

    ESB have 300MW of battery storage that cost €300 million. That is €1 million per MW. 13.5 GW would cost €13.5 billion.

    Our present average hourly demand is 3.75 GW. That €13.5 billion would supply the grid for the grand total of 3.5 hours after which those batteries are drained with no means of recharging them with renewables during those prolonged periods when renewables are doing next to nothing.

    To supply demand during just one day of that prolonged period, the cost of using batteries would currently be €86.4 billion. Green ideology is financially based on money trees, but even for them that is some forest that would be required



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 442 ✭✭tppytoppy


    He is not looking to convince you, he is just trying to further the perception that Green Party policies are well conceived, not counter-productive not financially ruinous to the State. 1st, 2nd and 3rd preferences need to be collected in coming local and national elections otherwise the doomsday club can't influence policy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,736 ✭✭✭Consonata


    The more I consider Nuclear, the more I think we should accept the facts such as they are about their cost.

    FWIW, I am not anti-Nuclear, I'm anti grift by and large, and there is a lot of grift and showboating about shiny new ideas that might make Nuclear possible in Ireland. Thorium was it once upon a time, SMRs also.

    I think it would be better if we took on what actual real Nuclear projects that are being developed in our neighbourhood (e.g Hinckley, Sizewell) and used them as a model of estimates for what it could offer us.

    I'm not extremely opposed to the EDF coming to Ireland and us building nuclear here, essentially doing a copy paste of the projects that they've built in Hinckley and Sizewell.

    I am opposed to throwing cash at unproven projects like SMRs, in the hopes it makes sense down the line.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,965 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    I haven`t seen anyone anywhere even suggesting we should invest in building our own SMR`s. It would be as crazy as the greens idea that we would be selling electricity to the rest of Europe generated by floating wind farms off our west coast, or that by bankrupting our economy the rest of the world would see how right we were and do the same.

    If your definition of grift is showboating and chasing shiny new things you do not need to look any further than home where nobody can give a cost for a plan we are following and some think we should spend further hundreds of billions on grid scale battery storage back-up on top of that.

    And why do you believe we should only be looking to France should we decide to build a nuclear plant rather than consider the proposals of any others that would be interested ? Poland has secured themselves a sweetheart deal with the U.S. and South Korea was offering a better price than the French or the U.S.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,736 ✭✭✭Consonata


    Because none of the things you suggest are proven. Poland hasn't built any NPPs yet. SK has only built NPPs outside their own country in the UAE and Jordan, places which operate in a completely different regulatory franework to us.

    The EDF is the only show in town that is actually building concrete NPPs. For better or for worse.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭bored65


    Take the most expensive UK or Finnish new gen reactors

    And you still endup reaching net zero decades before the current plan (that has zero chance of reaching 2030 and 2050 goals) which will cost at least 10x more even by the most optimistic of calculations the spinsters can provide when they don’t scurry off to hide

    That greens (with and without capital first letter) in Ireland actually give two 💩 s about climate change is one of the most incredible political stunts ever pulled,

    the Greens in UK on other hand don’t even have much in way of green policies hilariously enough and just are a place for far left Corbynistas to congregate

    Post edited by bored65 on


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 99,467 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    French nuclear provided 68.1% of total electrical generation last year. That's 31.9% away from net-zero.

    Even in it's best year it never got to 80%. Wouldn't even meet our 2030 targets.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 99,467 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    EDF aren't the only show in town.

    There's also Westinghouse, whose bankruptcy nearly took out Toshiba and had been owned by BNFL (caught faking safety records) amongst others. Vogtle was seven years late and $17Bn over budget. And VC Summer cost $10Bn before it was abandoned.

    Other possibilities https://www.onr.org.uk/generic-design-assessment/assessment-of-reactors not all approved yet.

    Hitachi walked away from a £20Bn plant for Wyfla and the failure to restart most Japanese reactors would count against.

    The UK HPR 1000 is a joint venture with EDF so can't really see that being better.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭bored65


    Today France is 15x less co2 and 2x less price to consumer

    Perhaps worry more about where the 200+ billion for the current path we are being pushed down will come from

    Or the 10 and 30% capacity factors backed up by foreign gas that solar and wind in Ireland have



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,965 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Where did you get your latest nonsense from that EDF of France is the only company using concrete in nuclear power plant construction ?

    KHNP of South Korea recently completed work on the UAE Barakah four NPP`s with an installed capacity of 5.6 GW where they poured 2.5 million yards of concrete and Westinghouse are not going to be using paper mache for the Polish 3.75 GW plant.

    Poland and the Czech Republic are both members of the E.U. and are governed under the same rules and regulations we are and the E.U. has no problem with Westinghouse building nuclear plants in Poland or KHNP doing the same in the Czech Republic.

    I do not buy for one second that you are not anti nuclear and your now favoring Of EDF is anything other than your already shown disingenuous postings.



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  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,435 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    I believe that you may need to take a step back and take a breath. Was very clear to me that he wasn't talking about them literally using concrete in NPP construction, but that they were the only ones that are definitely 100% actually building NPPs in Europe.

    A concrete use of an adjective, so to speak. 😂



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,043 ✭✭✭✭josip


    😀

    Still interesting to know the volumes of concrete that goes into an NPP.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,965 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Not how it read for me but not that it matters, either way the poster was incorrect on both. Westinghouse will be building NPP`s in Poland as will KHNP in the Czech Republic. The Slovak government has stated it intends for Westinghouse to build a 1.2 GW unit at its Bohunice site.

    Slovakia were not interested in having anyone else tender, so it looks like the U.S. government are also putting their weight behind this as they did in Poland with low interest financing to seal the deal.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,965 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    That was for four units with an installed capacity of 5.6 GW and sand would not have been a problem😉



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 99,467 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    It's 25% more than EDF thought. With 75% more steel. "Stuart Crooks, Managing Director at Hinkley Point C, said in a note to staff that the entity has been forced to adapt the plant’s design to meet the country’s regulations, needing up to 7,000 changes as well as adding 70% more steel along with 25% extra concrete. He highlighted that the civil works are slower than what they had expected."

    Interestingly the regulators had a different story "In relation to the volume of additional steel and concrete required at Hinkley Point C, we do not recognise our regulatory requirements as being the principal factor in these increases, as they are broadly similar to the requirements in France."

    Someone's telling porkies and my money's on the company that has got every forecast on cost and dates wrong.

    Concrete does get harder over time, while it's still adsorbing back some of the the CO2 produced in making the cement, but cracks don't fix themselves and neutron radiation is cumulative unless you can anneal.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 99,467 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,965 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    With them importing jjust $140,000 worth of sand, other than Saudi Arabia having built nothing using concrete than a few bungalows in 2023, that articles could be looked on as an example of paper never refusing ink.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,736 ✭✭✭Consonata


    I mean concrete as in they are actually building NPPs, Polish and Czech NPPs are still vaporware



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,965 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    In which case so are offshore wind farms here.

    Floating offshore wind farms that were going to see us selling all that electricity generation from our high capacity west coast wind could not even be called vapourware as they got blown away the minute ideology met the road of reality.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,736 ✭✭✭Consonata


    There are plenty of offshore windfarms which have been built in our neighbourhood, many of which have bid for further?

    Korea has not built any nuclear power plants on this continent ever, and the US has not in the last 20 years at least.

    These are not comparable.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭bored65




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,965 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    How so ?

    The one offshore wind farm we tried to build was not just an unmitigated disaster in its own right, it exposed the feet of clay this whole present plan was based on.

    Based on that and the weight the U.S. government is putting behind the Polish and Slovakia NPPs via cheap financing along with the Czech agreement with KHNP on their two new large scale unit, the odds on both Westinghouse and KHNP building those plants are as good if not better than ours of building the four offshore wind farms recently awarded strike prices.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,736 ✭✭✭Consonata


    Our neighbours have 16GW of nameplate capacity, with further in planning or under construction.

    So again, the US and Korea have yet to build a kW of power in this continent.

    Offshore wind is getting active developmemt at present. Thats why I say the EDF are the only ones with any real credibility in Europe insofar as they are the only ones with a recent track record.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 442 ✭✭tppytoppy


    Anyone remember lisa Simpson's Malibu Barbie competitor which failed. At least they tried except the investor was left nursing their loses. Hydrogen economy has utterly failed and the number of pumps in Germany are so reduced that the few remaining hydrogen cars can't travel any distances for fear of being stranded. More expensive to run too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,517 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    Hydrogen cars have nothing to do with Hydrogen as an energy storage medium for power grids. That doesn’t mean I disagree about Hydrogen in either role, but drawing conclusions from one to the other is invalid reasoning.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 442 ✭✭tppytoppy


    Only difference between hydrogen in automotive and energy storage is that we have seen it doesn't work commercially and only beginning to see it in storage now



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,808 ✭✭✭Busman Paddy Lasty


    Malibu Stacy was the toy in cartoon afaik. But if the intelligent doll that had an education is hydrogen/renewables in this analogy. Does that mean the Malibu Stacy bimbo is the pretty face of the military industrial complex shilling weapons, low low cost finance and nuclear?



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 99,467 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    UK Nuclear today it's looking like at least 5 of 9 generators will be offline from 22nd - 28th

    Torness 1 R1 - Refuelling and graphite inspection outage - until May 28

    Haysham 2 R8 - Refuelling and graphite inspection outage - until June 4

    Haysham 1 R2 - Non planned Refuelling and repair outage - until June 19

    Hartlepool R1 - Non planned Automatic trip during routine testing. - until May 12

    Sizewell B Both generators Next statutory outage 22nd May 2026 for 55 days



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,517 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    No, they’re completely different things. There’s even two completely different, incompatible, types of “automotive hydrogen”.

    Even politically, the push for automotive hydrogen wasn’t from “greens” but rather the US oil and gas industry, which saw it as way of staying in the transport market when stricter air-quality laws made gasoline engines impossible to operate economically. It’s not a coincidence that California had more hydrogen cars than anywhere else - CA has always been stricter on air pollutants than any other US state, and it gives incentives to “zero-emissions” vehicles (in CA that means hydrocarbons, particulates and nitrogen oxides, not CO2). Hydrogen cars was an American industry’s solution to American legislative pressure.

    If you saw then around your hometown, that’s only because the German car industry has such a large presence in the US, and had paid for their development out of US model budgets.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭bored65


    Italy is dropping its nuclear power ban

    https://www.ansa.it/english/news/2026/05/13/framework-for-resumption-of-nuclear-power-in-italy-this-summer-says-meloni_e8a7f300-37ca-44d8-96c7-968ddeeabc52.html


    they’ve already blocked conversion of farm lands to solar industrial estates



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