2025-26 UEFA Champions League - See Mod Note Post 1

We had this conversation this time last year when PSG won the CL IIRC. I think the lines have become blurred and when I see a genocidal nation state like Israel being allowed to continue playing football and their club sides playing in UEFA tournaments who owns Man City or PSG pales into insignificance. I think the whole point re certain ownership’s of club sides has been lost and corroded has become undermined. I take the point that you make that “people can be annoyed about more than one thing at once”. However I think the sporting integrity issue has become blurred. When the money washes through into the system the lines disappear eventually and for me personally no action on Israel undermines any debate about ethical concerns.

I think there are bigger issues in football than Qatar and Saudi Arabian ownership in club football. When it comes to the Israeli situation it’s not just the national team it’s their club sides that are creating problems.

This particular line you’re drawing about nation states owning clubs I find is a bit tenuous and has for me become minimised as time passes and other bigger more immediate moral dilemmas come to the fore but continue to be largely ignored.

When I hear a fan of a football club describe the achievements of PSG or Man City etc. as “worthless” in the context I’m talking about I have become cynical about that sort of comment and find it worthless and pointless in itself.

Worthless was how the achievements of PSG or Man City are described, not by you but in another comment above. You’re always careful enough to cover your tracks.

I’m sure some people do hold that position (anti nation state ownership etc.) genuinely I suspect though some just hold it because they don’t like it when their team doesn’t win. I do hope that you accept that that is also the case.

I recall when Newcastle got new owners, some Newcastle fans reconciled themselves with the new reality. It was either that or stop being a fan of their favourite football team.

I think there’s a lot of ould guff and sour grapes about Man City or PSG and the moral standpoint stuff rings hollow in the context of far more serious problems being failed to be addressed by UEFA/FIFA, while also accepting of course that some people are genuinely appalled that PSG and/or Man City win things while under “nefarious” ownership.

We are where we are indeed.

Reading through this I still don't understand the point, are you ok with all nation state ownership or do you have a line that Qatar and Saudi Arabia are below but other nations would be above?

I don't see why it would be ok only in some instances

I don’t understand your question or what you’re asking me. I haven’t drawn any lines about what’s acceptable as a nation state ownership or not?

Nation states do break the football economy, make everything more expensive for everyone and make a mockery of the idea of competition.

And because they can spend so freely, it does feel hollow. Get a defender in, doesn’t work? Get another one in. Get players for 100m and have them sit on thr bench. Get players that your rivals are looking at that you don’t really need. Why not, there’s always more cash to spend. There’s so little intrigue in that, just the inevitability that they will eventually get it right.

City fans won’t care and will comfort themselves by saying everyone else is just jealous, but there are plenty of reasons why people think state ownership is terrible for the game.

Right but I'm not talking about them being 'dodgy' or not. It's also clearly not banned by the rules, these aren't the answers to the question I asked.

What I asked was, are you ok with any nation state owning a club or just Qatar and Saudi Arabia (and others I presume like that)?

Like - because it's not against the rules, are you just able to blanketly accept it?

Or, do you have a line above which you would (like the PSG example) think the style of play isn't worth it?

I'm really not sure how to ask the question in the right way, this is my 3rd attempt and I feel I'm laying it out clearly but maybe it's because it's text or I'm tired or something

I'm not asking anything about international football, this is the Champions League thread where one of the finalists is nation state owned

I think so? You're basically saying what I thought - that for some nation states you're fine with it but for others you'd draw a line. And Qatar and Saudi Arabia aren't at that line.

That's fair, but I think people you debate with are mostly just going to be blanketly against nation states owning football teams regardless of their political system so as you say, apples and oranges

Enjoy the final!

No that’s not what I said. Most nation states have no interest in investing in a football club especially one in a different country. Not going to happen, I’ve have no idea why you’re even talking about such a thing that will never happen.

I hope the final is a good one. I think PSG will win despite their ownership they play an excellent brand of football.

I don’t differentiate between oil ‘state’ money and more obvious private money being pumped into football. If the money is from nefarious means no matter where the source it shouldn’t be allowed. However the football authorities won’t say no to money being pumped into the game. Supporters of opposition clubs who complain would largely change their tune if their club became the direct beneficiary of sportswashing money whether from private or oil ‘state’ sources.

I think that’s fairly clear.

I think it’ll just end up with that Super League type effort that there was a couple of years ago. Won’t take 20 years will happen sooner.

The problem with the Super League was that it was a closed shop like the NFL in American Football. There was no relegation or promotion into it. UEFA will bring that in soon enough with relegation out of it and promotion into it as a starting point anyway. It’s the only way they can keep control over it.

By the time that happens there’ll be more water under the bridge and the difference between legacy clubs and petro state or other privately backed noisy neighbour type clubs will be blurred to the point of no distinction at all.

Any Arsenal fans here going to the final? What's the criteria for getting tickets from the club?

Good god €7k.

That's like Ferrari inviting their clients to spend 200k on a car. And they think they are doing you a favour.

No that’s not what I’m saying at all. You don’t like what I’m saying that’s your business don’t try to make it sound like I’m saying something different.

It sounds like what it says.

A real sign that people can’t handle a debate or argument when they start making stuff up and attributing meaning that isn’t there.