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Tesla Talk 2

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,062 ✭✭✭MojoMaker


    So is it just Tesla that's in for criticism here, the others in the space are performing ok by you?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 61,078 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    zero Tesla accidents

    Since some time last year, roughly around the time they introduced 14.2 which is generally considered the first version of their FSD beta software that is capable of self driving

    It is unrelated that Tesla don't provide details about the accidents as there were no accidents. But I agree all parties should provide all details about all accidents to NHTSA

    But like I said many times, it is early days for the Tesla L4 fully self driving (unmanned). We will see how it pans out and at what speed their L4 is scaling. Of course there will be accidents, the crux is in the accidents per million miles.

    Should this be lower than Waymo at some stage with significant numbers of miles driven (say Tesla reaches a quarter of Waymo daily L4 mileage), will you concede vision only works or at least is better than Waymo with lidar?

    "Make no mistake. The days of the internal combustion engine are definitely numbered" - Quentin Willson, 1997



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 35,672 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    "It is unrelated that Tesla don't provide details about the accidents as there were no accidents. But I agree all parties should provide all details about all accidents to NHTSA"

    They do not sent all their accident data to NHTSA, that's the entire point. Because they don't sent all their data. Not that there is no accidents. There's plenty of evidence of accidents and no reports in NHTSA files.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 61,078 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Not true. The previous NHTSA reports had plenty of Tesla accidents. Although these were of course not L4 self driving cars and their software was pre 14.2

    From a quick search, NHTSA has reported on 952 Tesla AP crashes and 4 FSD crashes. Of course the AP software is absolutely ancient

    And yes the latest NHTSA report over 2025/2026 had ZERO Tesla crashes on FSD software

    "Make no mistake. The days of the internal combustion engine are definitely numbered" - Quentin Willson, 1997



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 35,672 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Exactly.

    You've proven my point, zero incidents the entire year. In a scale and new location year ?

    You think that is accurate ? Genuinely!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 61,078 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Last change saloon for buying FSD in Europe. End of next week in most countries

    image.png

    "Make no mistake. The days of the internal combustion engine are definitely numbered" - Quentin Willson, 1997



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 35,672 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Which sucks. Why not keep both options. For those that want to test it, and those that are sold and want it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,062 ✭✭✭MojoMaker


    Yes potentially.

    As it doesn't transfer you'd need to keep your car 6 years to justify buying it outright vs picking it up and dropping it down for a small sum when/if the mood takes you. Not sure many are keeping their Teslas 6 years, but are changing more frequently as the pace of development progresses.

    A sub model allows Tesla to come up with some interesting offers in the future and introduce neatly-packaged taster windows if/when they wanted.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 61,078 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Bullying tactic. A few believers will last minute buy because of it. A lot of people change cars way before the 5 year or so pay back time and will not even make it back. But my guess is SaaS is more profitable, as the €99 per month will soon go up

    "Make no mistake. The days of the internal combustion engine are definitely numbered" - Quentin Willson, 1997



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 61,078 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Just heard that Tesla now have 25 L4 (unmanned) robotaxis on the road. That is more than I thought. A few weeks ago they only had a couple of them

    But for comparison, Waymo have 3000

    The scaling of this over the next 12-18 months or so will mean everything. I'd expect that by the end of next year, Tesla will have more L4 cars on the road than Waymo

    "Make no mistake. The days of the internal combustion engine are definitely numbered" - Quentin Willson, 1997



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,107 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    That's actually disgraceful they're doing that. Pretty aggressive push which would be fine if the SW was transferable.

    Stay Free



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 61,078 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Agreed FSD bought outright should be transferable to a new car. It has been transferable (for free) on many occasions in the past and it would be a cheap way for Tesla to get rid of the problem of HW3 FSD cars

    Yet it stays with the car

    "Make no mistake. The days of the internal combustion engine are definitely numbered" - Quentin Willson, 1997



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,382 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    Times i have derided your experience - 0, times i sided up with random poster A - 0, times i gifted someone as an arbitrator of information - 0

    So for the love of f'in god stop inventing slights or making things up to validate how you are feeling.

    Read my post and take the anti tesla blinkers off. For the record i have never said that i categorically believe camera only will be the technology that cracks self driving at L4 either, all ive said is that Tesla have made more advances than anyone else in mass consumerising this technology and that all progress is good, but you cant handle that so need to invent a conflict. You seriously need to step away from this thread man, its not good for you.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 6,596 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    Below is the full text of Article 39 which deals with exemptions for new technologies, I don't see where you're seeing that an EU Type Approval issued under Article 39 is treated any differently after it passes the commission that would allow an individual member state to block the sale of a vehicle with a valid EU Type Approval.

    Article 39 - Exemptions for new technologies or new concepts

    The manufacturer may apply for an EU type-approval in respect of a type of vehicle, system, component or separate technical unit that incorporates new technologies or new concepts that are incompatible with one or more regulatory acts listed in Annex II.

    The approval authority shall grant the EU type-approval referred to in paragraph 1 where all of the following conditions are met:

    (a) the application for the EU type-approval states the reasons why the new technologies or new concepts make the vehicles, systems, components or separate technical units incompatible with one or more regulatory acts listed in Annex II;

    (b) the application for the EU type-approval describes the safety and environmental implications of the new technology or new concept and the measures taken in order to ensure at least an equivalent level of safety and environmental protection to that provided by the requirements in respect of which an exemption is sought;

    (c) test descriptions and results are presented proving that the condition in point (b) is met.

    The granting of EU type-approvals exempting new technologies or new concepts shall be subject to the authorisation by the Commission.

    The Commission shall adopt implementing acts to decide whether to grant the authorisation referred to in the first subparagraph of this paragraph. Those implementing acts shall be adopted in accordance with the examination procedure referred to in Article 83(2).

    Pending adoption of implementing acts referred to in paragraph 3, the approval authority may grant a provisional EU type-approval, valid only in the territory of the Member State of that approval authority, in respect of a type of vehicle covered by the exemption sought. The approval authority shall inform the Commission and the other Member States thereof without delay by means of a file containing the information referred to in paragraph 2.

    The provisional nature and the limited territorial validity of the EU type-approval shall be apparent from the heading of the EU type-approval certificate and the heading of the certificate of conformity.

    Approval authorities of other Member States may accept the provisional EU type-approval referred to in paragraph 4 within their territory, provided they inform the approval authority that granted the provisional EU type-approval of their acceptance in writing.

    Where appropriate, the implementing acts referred to in paragraph 3 shall specify whether authorisations are subject to any restrictions, in particular with regard to the maximum number of vehicles covered. In all cases, the EU type-approval shall be valid for at least 36 months.

    Where the Commission adopts implementing acts referred to in paragraph 3 to refuse to grant the authorisations, the approval authority shall immediately inform the holder of the provisional EU type-approval referred to in paragraph 4 that the provisional EU type-approval approval shall be revoked six months after the date of the implementing act.

    However, vehicles that have been manufactured in conformity with the provisional EU type-approval before it ceased to be valid may be placed on the market, be registered or enter into service in any Member State that has accepted the provisional EU type-approval in accordance with paragraph 5.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 35,672 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    I'm grand. Id just like folks to stick to refuting the points being made with their own data and opinion rather than talking in vague terms and not offering up opinion.

    And you were one of those that thanked that poster in particular back then. So that's what's called firm agreement btw.

    As i said I'm grand.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 442 ✭✭tppytoppy


    https://x.com/RonnyGolisch/status/2052335724645458168

    German sales figures for April are out. 3000 units.

    That isn't enough to support the factory in Germany. German EV sales are now almost 26% of the total market so going backwards. If you want a Tesla you will still be able to get it but the chances are it might come from China or U.S.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 35,672 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Nissan are closing a line in the UK. And exiting their Barcelona factory.

    Although I read geely are buying ford Spanish factory.

    Alot of flux in this space



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭JOL1


    Tesla's german gigafactory produces Model Y for the whole European market (not just for Germany) and sales for Q1 2026 were were 51,676 units …



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,107 ✭✭✭...Ghost...




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 442 ✭✭tppytoppy


    Germany is the bulk of the demand for Europe.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,382 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    Or

    Germany reported 3,149 Tesla sales and 1.3% market share in April. BEV penetration is 25.8% and Tesla has 4.9% of this segment.

    • +256% vs. April last year and +142% compared to January the first month of the previous quarter• Best April ever•

    Highest first month of the quarter since 24Q1 (9 quarters)

    • Last three months +188.0% vs. November - January

    • Year-to-date +175% over same period last year

    • Year-to-date is 82% or 9.9/12 of last year's total

    All about perspective I guess



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 442 ✭✭tppytoppy


    Tesla doesn't need German plant to satisfy the limited demand it has for its two product lines



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭JOL1


    Sales have been volatile thats for sure ..so its difficult to generalise for the future. As its only European plant it also has a strategic value by its focus on vertical integration and mitigating risks of shipping (costs/disruptions) and (or) tariff avoidance..real risks as recent events have shown.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,382 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    Screenshot_20260509_114049_Reddit.jpg

    Find this hard to reconcile with all the doomsayers we had posting at the end of last year...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 10,819 ✭✭✭✭893bet


    Wow. I am amazed the Y is so far ahead. Also amazed that there not a sign of VW/kia/hyundai. BYD have a lot of models.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,873 ✭✭✭John arse


    More models at BYD than the Miss World contest?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 442 ✭✭tppytoppy


    250k production in a quarter out of 4 plants for model Y suggest under-occupancy especially as 60% of that was from Shanghai.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,579 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    And yet still the best seller.
    Like having a big V10 engine working at 50% than a 4 cylinder screaming at 100%.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 442 ✭✭tppytoppy


    I don't know where to start explaining to you why that analogy is completely wrong but would probably start with design of a factory intended for 500k units being completely different to one intended for 200k.



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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,579 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Im sure it probably doesn’t make economic sense to you or I, but I’m also sure smarter people than us boards users have ran the numbers as they are obviously doing something right.



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