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Should DCC close Bull Island?

124

Comments

  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,054 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    No one said that, dogs on leashes at all times in that area and maybe a bit of an educational campaign to explain why, so people understand why.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,303 ✭✭✭Cyclingtourist


    How's that different to what already exists?

    See official sign shown in OP linked article.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 11,717 ✭✭✭✭John_Rambo


    Dogs shouldn't be on the salt marshes or near the seal colony. They shouldn't be off lead in the Dune system and I'd encourage closing off parts of the island during sensitive seasons. The golf clubs need to go (won't happen).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,858 ✭✭✭Gloomtastic!


    With drone technology, it wouldn’t be difficult to monitor the dunes for rogue dogs roaming off lead.

    As I’ve said on here previously, it just takes one dog to be shot dead for trespassing and the ensuing publicity means the problem will be solved.

    If they took out a few foxes at the same time, even better.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,938 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    Are we still talking about banning people from walking their Dog on a island which is mostly all Golf course?



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  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 12,672 Mod ✭✭✭✭artanevilla


    Just come out and say you want to shoot a dog, stop pretending it's about protecting nature.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 56,278 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    'mostly all' - it's less than one third golf course from a quick check on google maps.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 56,278 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    TIL that bull island has a population of 14.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 46,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Yeah, there's half a dozen houses at the end of the wooden bridge (I used to walk past them frequently when I was a lounge boy in the RDGC a long long time ago)

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,938 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    So about 30-40% of the Island is manicured green for Golf club members, and people are getting upset about dog walkers on the beach was my point.. seems more about the Dogs than protecting nature..



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,633 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    One of the cottages (#6 Bull Wall Cottages) was sold recently, was listed at near 1 million.
    I wasn't able to track down sale price on property price register.

    https://www.independent.ie/life/home-garden/a-cottage-on-bull-island-is-a-rare-thing-this-one-is-selling-for-almost-1m-with-its-own-private-beach/a2111674006.html

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 56,278 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    FWIW 'less than one third' is not 'about 30-40%'.

    my rough and ready estimate showed that the island is over 3.5sq km, and the golf courses are 1sq km.

    image.png


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 11,717 ✭✭✭✭John_Rambo


    I hear where you're coming from, but we all know there’s little chance of the golf courses going anywhere. Too much influence there. But the dogs absolutely do cause issues on North Bull Island.

    Hares are gone, chased and hunted out. Seals get chased off haul out spots, even during pupping season. The geese and migratory birds are repeatedly flushed into the air dozens of times a day, burning energy they need to survive winter. What looks harmless for a few seconds adds up to exhaustion, stress and lower survival rates over time. The dunes take a hammering too from dogs running through sensitive areas. Bull Island is a protected biosphere, not just a park or beach… and the dog **** problem is unbelievable.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,938 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    Well yea, the "Golf lobby" are quite powerful in terms of influence in Dublin, I mean if we converted all Golf courses in Dublin to housing then 10's of thousands of homes could be built.. but will never happen..

    So what do you do about a problem like Bull Island? It's a a UNESCO biosphere reserve/major wildlife habitat
    public beach/recreation area and home to two full links golf courses..29% of the Island..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 11,717 ✭✭✭✭John_Rambo


    I don't think there's much that can be done given the influence golfers have. However, the dog problem can be sorted with money, bodies, bodycams and proper enforcement.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,725 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    You are being way OTT. The lease for the St Anne's golf course expires in 44 years and then it returns to DCC control. The golfers will have no influence then, DCC literally hold all the cards here. DCC don't even have to do anything, just wait and they will get the land back eventually. They might even be able to shorten the timeframe by making it known that the golf course is on a finite timeline, thereby making it less attractive to new members as time goes on.

    There will be no case for leasing that land for a golf course again. The income DCC currently receives from the lease agreed in 1971 is a pittance in today's money (nevermind in another half century) so they won't notice the loss of revenue, there will be little to no competition to push up the value of a new lease and any new lease agreed will be back to being pocket change after a couple of decades. There is more value to DCC and the people they serve in "rewilding" that part of the island.

    DCC really should be considering options for a new course to replace both SAGC and Clontarf (and probably Sutton too which I believe is also leased by them). The land divided by the R123 Mayne Road could be a good option. It will likely remain undeveloped as the boundary between distinct urban areas and the Local Authorities themselves. The golfers either play ball with DCC or the young golfers of today will find their options for playing in north Dublin when they retire significantly reduced.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 56,278 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    who owns the royal dublin GC lands?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 76,149 ✭✭✭✭L1011




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,640 ✭✭✭Citizen  Six


    DCC can't even set up CCTV to monitor known dumping areas in Clontarf. What you are talking about won't be possible for at least another 25-30 years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 11,717 ✭✭✭✭John_Rambo


    If DCC ever decided not to renew the Bull Island golf leases, the resistance would be enormous. You’re talking about century old institutions with deep roots, influential memberships, major legal resources and strong political connections. It wouldn’t be a simple council vote. It would become one of the biggest public land battles Dublin has ever seen.

    But it's a lovely idea!! The implications for the island would also be extraordinary. A huge swathe of land could be returned to the wildlife sanctuary, with large areas left free from regular human interference. Ironically, the golf courses are already some of the most inaccessible parts of the island to the general public, making them one of the easier areas to rewild and protect long term.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 56,278 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    What legal challenge could be mounted to a lease expiring and not being renewed?

    Not saying they wouldn't try something, but what legal recourse would they try?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,633 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Get the golfers to pay for the dog \ fox wardens.
    Sorted :)

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,858 ✭✭✭Gloomtastic!


    Fifty years is a very long way away. The tip of Bull Island is getting washed away. Will there be a golf club there in 50 years?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,732 ✭✭✭Viscount Aggro


    A club member was telling me .... they call it "the royal chicken run".

    That's what the land was used for previously.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,303 ✭✭✭Cyclingtourist


    Bull Island effectively ceased to be an 'island' in the 1960s when DCC built the causeway. The idea that DCC are now going to 're-wild' it or 'close' it, as the thread title suggests, is ludicrous.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,633 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    They might have to close the causeway down the line. You could have a scenario where the causeway is regularly flooded at high tides (risen above current levels), along with low lying parts of the current island - though there is still an 'island'.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 56,278 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    no one said they 'are' going to re-wild it; we can discuss the challenges and benefits of such a theoretical move still, no?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,303 ✭✭✭Cyclingtourist




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 56,278 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    but you keep coming into the thread and stating it's a stupid idea because it'll never happen.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 56,278 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i hadn't actually seen this map before; not sure when bathing season is? summer months?

    image.png


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