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How many of us think that unification is no longer a priority and don't really want unification ?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,062 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Unless there is a complete breakdown in negotiations Pensions will be mutually agreed via negotiations and transitional arrangements as per the commitments in the GFA.

    The priority IMO for both governments in the lead in to a border poll will be to assure pensioners and near pensioners that their rights and entitlements will be protected. The scaremongers will try to have fun with this, no doubt.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭JohnDoe2025


    Yes, and the easiest way to do this is cast-iron promises that the future United Ireland will honour all existing pension commitments. You can't rely on an extra-jurisdictional guarantee that isn't enforceable in a local court.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,062 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    That is one way of doing it.

    The 'easiest' way is by mutual agreement.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭JohnDoe2025


    So you trust the British when it comes to mutual agreement, and you expect pensioners to bet their livelihoods on the British keeping their promises?

    Surprised to see that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,062 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    My assessment is, why would the British want to alienate Unionists, Nationalists and the Irish Government and set relations back a generation or 2?

    Where is the gain for them having a hostile island next door to them?

    As to trust, that is why a binding mutually acceptable agreement is required, The GFA has endured even the looniest British PMs, it cannot be broken without severe reputational damage. Even Boris wouldn't go there.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭JohnDoe2025


    I admire your blind faith in British governments, not sure that the rest of the Irish people share that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,062 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    What's 'blind' about it?

    It's based on watching what happens in the real world.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,987 ✭✭✭yagan


    Where is the gain in Brexit, aside from some insiders keeping prying eyes away from their offshoring activities?

    The EU is a pooling of nations to maintain a high standard of living in an era of rising competing trade blocs. Many UK minds thought that there was better options outside the EU, but they ended up just reducing their national trading leverage.

    We're coming up on the tenth anniversary of the Brexit vote and it's worth rereading this Danial Hannan piece from then and then match the reality with the fantasy he spouted.

    If there's hostility in any relationship involving any EU nation and Britain the font of hostility is almost always from Britain. British exceptionalism does not have a reverse gear.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,392 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    I watched this video where an English man goes to ostensibly “rough” dangerous areas. He wandered around both Republican and Unionist areas. Chaperoned by a fat man from Belfast. He chatted with locals etc. Ok it was during daylight hours seemed like afternoon.

    But not once did I hear a “United Ireland” mentioned - either a hope of one or threat of one

    The most mentioned was how calm everything was compared to xyz and abc. People seemed happy in the status quo and glad of the peace. Also it seems NI / Belfast more leans into the theatrical symbolism. Keeping the “peace walls” up as tourist attractions!

    As Dub from the outside looking in, it seems like a very odd place / mindset. No wonder kneecap (the band) emerged from that as they are. They grew up in a NI where nothing much really happened, but you never know something might!

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,987 ✭✭✭yagan


    @gormdubhgorm

    The loyalist threat was very real when they knew they had the protection of the British state. Thatcher started the process of offloading Britain's first planter colony and in the end it may be London that moves the UK border to the Irish Sea, just as it moved the CTA once without consulting Dublin, or Stormont.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭JohnDoe2025


    That would be a breach of the GFA.

    People forget that the GFA works both ways. It is a guarantee from the British government that they will never force NI out as long as the people of NI want to be part of the UK. It is also a guarantee from Ireland that it will also respect that wish.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,997 ✭✭✭.Donegal.


    Gavan Reilly Bluesky

    European Movement Ireland’s annual poll, one striking finding elsewhere: residents of N Ireland are also surveyed, and 63% (!!??) would vote in favour of a United Ireland.

    No mainstream poll has *ever* recorded a margin like this…

    The notes for the poll (conducted by Amárach Research, online) say the margin of error is 2.2% and that samples in both jurisdictions have been weighted to reflect demographic breakdown within each.

    Something seems … awry.

    Poll apparently conducted using lucid talk respondents. Seems a bit hard to believe.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭JohnDoe2025


    https://www.europeanmovement.ie/press-release-73-would-vote-to-rejoin-eu-in-northern-ireland/

    "Support for the EU within Ireland is further reflected in the poll with 63% stating they would support a United Ireland within the EU, 29% would vote against, and 8% don’t know, should the UK decide to hold a referendum tomorrow."

    The press release is confusing. In parts it talks about results from Northern Ireland, in other parts it talks about results from the whole island.

    Above is the section relating to unity.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,062 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    It appears NI's 'unique access' (a strong argument from Unionism and partitionists for it to remain in the UK) is not all it was cracked up to be.
    Tallies with no visible improvements for ordinary people as I was saying earlier.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,844 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    yet some on here think 'Keeping the “peace walls” up as tourist attractions!' . ` the sheer lack of comprehension is amazing



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭JohnDoe2025




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,062 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    And yet, a majority want to be fully in the EU.

    A larger majority than voted to remain in the Brexit referendum.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,392 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    It is what "Stumpy" from Belfast said in the video above if you watch it. That was who I was quoting. I did not come up with the comment myself!

    Here is the part of the video where he says "The thing is a lot of the peace walls are kept up in Belfast, and especially the Shankhill and Falls, as tourist attractions"

    On the flip side isn't great that the likes of yourself can dream about a UI, not really likely in our lifetimes, not a likely smooth transition either. But sure no harm done.

    Post edited by gormdubhgorm on

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,392 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    One of your nationalist friends from Derry - DeSouza wrote an article today in the Journal detailing all the economic advantages of a UI. It will be grand, apparently!

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,062 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    A UI will have all the challenges of any modern country.

    If I have said someting different or ever said 'it would be grand' please point out where.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,392 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    I never said that I just pointed out DeSouza's utoptian view of positives only. But her ultimate poltical viewpoint is the same as yours wanting a UI.

    At least in fairness to you, your journey to the imagined destination is not as naive as her's seems.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭JohnDoe2025


    The most pertinent point from the podcast is that the united Ireland issue is a deadweight that is costing Sinn Fein votes.

    I have no doubt that Sinn Fein could come close to 40% of the vote in an election if they dropped the nationalist rhetoric, if they dialled it down to talking about a border poll when the people of Northern Ireland in general are ready.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,062 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    She was replying to specific lazy partitionist negatives by highlighting some positives. At no point does she say a UI will be a utopia or that it will be grand.
    Sometimes people like yourself only want to hear the misery.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,392 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    You are probably correct. But the problem for SF ROI doing that ,they would be alienating those in SF NI/border counties from the lack of emphasis on "the struggle".

    I mean for example - I had to laugh at coverage of the recent SF Ard Fhéis. The delegates they interviewed all had Ulster accents, and it was staged in the Waterfront in Belfast. I always listen out for the very unique SF NI terminology.

    There was one I didn't hear before. He refferred to the ROI governement as "The 26 Government". Obviously given his ideology he couldn't say the ROI Government - so he said that instead.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭JohnDoe2025


    Most normal people have gone beyond that type of rhetoric. Even the Wolfe Tones and Kneecap are seen as harmless fun, they don't carry the same meaning that they do to older people.

    The bigger problem for SF ROI is that they are losing potential votes on either side to the likes of II, Aontu and the Social Democrats. Aontu have a much more restrained voice on NI, even though they are SF stock.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,062 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    As always there is another way of looking at that and the recent loss of voters they didn't want (the anti immigrant vote) highlights it.
    They are not going to be another FF FG and buy votes with rhetoric that doesn't mean anything or is a lie just to get a vote - like 'we will never coalesce with x and then turn around and coalesce with X and many other examples.
    If you don't want a Border Poll don't vote SF.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,005 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    a united ireland is going to become more and more important and vital as the years go on.
    a porus border on the island of ireland and the UK declining and going in the political direction it is going in is going to make it an absolute necessity.

    we need to start preparing for it now, today.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,719 ✭✭✭con___manx1


    The UK should cover some of the cost. The UK would make a massive saving getting rid of the north. Its just a money pit for them. There is way to many civil servants up there. The UK would hand that back tomorrow if they could 😆 thats why I think it could happen.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭JohnDoe2025


    Important and vital to who? Absolute necessity for what?

    The Common Travel Area is an international agreement dating back decades and is not going anywhere anytime soon, despite the porous border.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,005 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    protecting our borders, moving away politically from the UK which we need to start doing and going further in with our EU partners.
    the common travel area will be revised or even abolished as britain gets stricter on immigration and borders, it also doesn't really serve any purpose now as most people who emmigrate are going elsewhere.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



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