Tesla Talk 2

listermint · 03-05-2026 12:58PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124440038#Comment_124440038

Have a good day.

zg3409 · 03-05-2026 02:30PM

"Musk's legal representation has also made news. One of his lawyers has been moonlighting as a clown in his downtime, according to Business Insider."

Bit off topic, mostly Open AI but the next month should be fun

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn8dedv8w8xo

unkel · 04-05-2026 09:21PM

10 million km driven by FSD in NL in just 3 weeks

unkel · 04-05-2026 11:43PM

And 10 billion miles (16 billion km) worldwide on FSD, seems to be clocking up a billion miles in under a month now

The total Waymo combined mileage is 200 million miles. Tesla has done 50 times that

I know it is apples and oranges, Waymos are L4 and FSD supervised is L2 technically as the driver is still responsible, but the figures are telling anyway

Mr Q · 05-05-2026 10:46PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124439364#Comment_124439364

Driverless? Are you sure about that

Cyrus · 05-05-2026 11:24PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124446909#Comment_124446909

I suppose it depends on how pedantic you want to be about the supervisor who didnt touch any of the controls ?

Cyrus · 06-05-2026 07:32AM

Tesla still selling well across Europe...

Mr Q · 06-05-2026 11:06AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124446972#Comment_124446972

Well there's a massive difference between an excellent level 2 system with a safety driver and a driverless car.

unkel · 06-05-2026 11:15AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124447615#Comment_124447615

Technically there is zero difference. Tesla use the exact same hardware and software in their unmanned robotaxis, except of course the cybercabs that no longer have any steering wheel or pedals

But obviously legally there is a huge difference in that a L4 system is responsibility of the software / hardware company (Tesla) where L2 system is responsibility of the driver

We have discussed this many times. The software used is beta software and called "FSD supervised". This is a stepping stone to the eventual L4 / L5 FSD unsupervised software should be able at that stage really fully drive itself

Mr Q · 06-05-2026 11:35AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124447647#Comment_124447647

Zero difference? Was the test drive you went on Geo fenced then like the robotaxi?

There's no doubt Tesla are making progress but there is a huge difference between where they are currently and being L4 for the normal driver.

unkel · 06-05-2026 11:42AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124447694#Comment_124447694

Software is still the same. Not quite sure of the details of geo fencing on the test drives last year. There were several dozen test sites across many different countries. But for now there is a geo fence on the NL cars with FSD, as soon as they cross the border, FSD stops working

Obviously the L4 Tesla cars in the USA are in their very early stage. Tesla seems extremely cautious deploying them and for sure they are tightly geo fenced to very small areas. There are only a handful of them too, most "robotaxis" still have Tesla staff in them

There was the RDW presentation to the EU yesterday, I'll try find out later what was discussed, if this is in the public domain

ELM327 · 06-05-2026 11:45AM

I was listening to a piece about FSD on newstalk this morning and they said that, while the Netherlands approved the FSD as it was, each individual EU country will have to do their own process of approval. I thought it was pretty automatic… as in approved in one was akin to approved in all?

MojoMaker · 06-05-2026 12:04PM

Will the transport minister step up here and approve when presented with it, or will this be mired in a political ' he sid, she said' for years into the future 🤔

listermint · 06-05-2026 01:35PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124447726#Comment_124447726

That information comes from Tesla sites. The process is in fact still down to each member state

listermint · 06-05-2026 01:35PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124447771#Comment_124447771

Step up for what ? What gain is in this software release , that's part of his remit ?

liamog · 06-05-2026 02:12PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124447726#Comment_124447726

This is what RDW shared earlier this year, I'm not sure if there's a carve out for individual EU members to recognise the RDW approval before EU wide vote

For now only the Netherlands; later possibly admission across the entire European Union
The type approval for Tesla’s driver assistance system is currently valid only in the Netherlands. To make it possible to use this driver assistance system throughout the European Union, a number of steps still need to be completed:
RDW submits the application for permission across the entire European Union to the European Commission
all member states vote on this application
approval requires a majority of votes within the responsible committee.
If the vote is in favour, the driver assistance system will be valid in all member states, meaning it may be used in all member states of the European Union.

https://www.rdw.nl/en/news/2026/rdw-explanation-of-european-type-approval-tesla-with-provisional-validity-in-the-netherlands

ELM327 · 06-05-2026 02:14PM

all member states vote on this application

approval requires a majority of votes within the responsible committee.

I mean that's pretty clear, unless countries vote to change it doesnt change.

liamog · 06-05-2026 02:38PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124448137#Comment_124448137

I can see where the message gets muddled.

Right now Tesla have a provisional type approval valid in The Netherlands for FSD running on Hardware 4 under an Article 39 exemption.

RDW now have to take that provisional approval to the commission where there will be a vote to accept it.
Member states can individually choose to recognise the provisional before the commission vote.

If the commission authorises the type approval with exemption, it automatically becomes valid in all member states. If they do not accept it, then the provisional approval is only valid for a further 6 months in countries that had accepted it.

Mention of individual approvals in the other member state is mostly incorrect. A country can choose to recognise the provisional approval, or wait till the commission decision. I suppose a country could say to Tesla, we're choosing not to recognise the provisional approval, if you want to sell vehicles using this technology in our country you have to get a type approval exemption here, but that would only be valid until the commission approves the RDW submitted exemption at which point Tesla can say "jog on" we have an EU level exemption now, we're not going to jump through your extra hoops.

unkel · 06-05-2026 02:52PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124448126#Comment_124448126

Yes and that meeting happened yesterday. On June 30th a vote is expected. For FSD to receive immediate EU wide approval, at least 55% of EU member states and representing at least 65% of the EU population must vote in favour

listermint · 06-05-2026 02:56PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124448216#Comment_124448216

Not entirely true. Whilst article 39 exemption is applied member states are under no obligation to recognise it unless it's made permanent. The temporary exemption is for a period of around 36 months. Any state could tell Tesla to sling one until it's permanently adopted .it doesn't matter what Tesla point to or not.

liamog · 06-05-2026 03:13PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124448272#Comment_124448272

Which part of the regulation states that an EU Type approval may be ignored if its issued under a Article 39 exemption?

The exemption is for at least 36 months, an exemption under Article 39 compels the commission to work with the UNECE process to update the regulation removing the need for an exemption, and gives scope to extend the exemption until such time as a UNECE regulation is in place removing the justification for the exemption.

39.6 States

Where appropriate, the implementing acts referred to in paragraph 3 shall specify whether authorisations are subject to any restrictions, in particular with regard to the maximum number of vehicles covered. In all cases, the EU type-approval shall be valid for at least 36 months.

tppytoppy · 06-05-2026 03:26PM

Tesla Canada is getting model 3 from China, not US. They might take Model y too but Canada only offers a low tariffs of 6.1% for up to 49000 units from China per year. They might not need to rehire those workers in Germany if Canada switches to China.

https://youtu.be/xnhtWGkL-h0?t=248

listermint · 06-05-2026 03:40PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124448303#Comment_124448303

That's EU type approval 'under exemption'. It's the member approved period,.not the closure of the process which would come with the move to permanency. (Updating specific language in the articles to enhance and improve the scope of the language in the articles) . So the 36 months is still in essence EU wide 'exempted' approval.

It's a process designed to smooth the path. But it's still not defacto regulation. It's why the term exemption is used.

MojoMaker · 06-05-2026 04:19PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124447995#Comment_124447995

Step up to recognise the provisional approval for FSD supervised when it's presented to the government, if we are going country by country across the EU as someone suggested.

I can't think where else in government the approval would need to come from other than DoT?

listermint · 06-05-2026 04:29PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124448448#Comment_124448448

No I'm confused why you would use the wording 'step up' it doesn't really make sense in the context of validating a private companies software sale.

What is he 'stepping up' for here ?

Should he step up to approve features for any business to make sales? Why ? Slightly confusing impression of the purpose of his role.

Gumbo · 06-05-2026 04:35PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124448468#Comment_124448468

Does this not happen every day with the NSAI etc

They step up and approve private systems to be used and sold here in Ireland. The approve private MMC systems that are heavily promoted by private industry to get approvals for use on Irish construction sites. These private companies are not heavily promoting MMC to reduced Ireland house shortage, but for sheer profit, like any other private company.

liamog · 06-05-2026 04:43PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124448356#Comment_124448356

The only member approved period is between the date of the provisional approval and the commission voting to allow the EU Type approval. I don't see any language in the directive that allows an EU Type Approval to be treated as a EU Optional Type Approval if granted under Article 39.

Article 39 is not about exempting vehicles from the EU Type approval process, it's saying that the vehicle under approval uses new technologies or concepts that are incompatible with the relevant vehicle technical standards.

An approving authority has to justify why they think it's incompatible, and show that they believe it meets an equivalent safety and environmental standard. They also have to provide evidence to show how they came to this conclusion.

If I invented a new vehicle restraint system that was technically incompatible with the regulations on safety belts but could prove it was safer than the current safety belts, I'd apply for an Article 39 exemption to allow me to start selling vehicles that used the new system. I'd have an EU Type Approval which is valid in all EU member states.

The whole point of EU Type approval is that an individual state cannot block the sale of registration of a vehicle that is covered by one. They cannot impose extra testing or national barriers. A member state could use the temporary restriction mechanism if they believe an approved vehicle represents a serious risk to safety or the environment, but that kicks off a formal process, not just a "I think it's bad, so you can't sell it".

MojoMaker · 06-05-2026 04:49PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124448468#Comment_124448468

Well the opposite of stepping up in this case would be to stay completely in the background in ostrich mode when Tesla seek ratification of EU provisional approval to operate FSD Supervised in the ROI.

He could put his head in the sand and cry "don't bother me with this, I don't really understand it, wah wah wah".

So yes, an element of stepping up here and getting involved in the process rationally and objectively and then coming to a decision may absolutely be required - let's hope he steps up.

Not all ministers are equal in this regard however.

listermint · 06-05-2026 04:51PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124448503#Comment_124448503

Correct but the approval doesn't actually close until fully ratified after the period of 36 months and it moves from exempt to enforced via altering the article language.

It is oblivious a case of language but it doesn't explicit enforce on member states that they have to abide by that approval process until 'closed' . That period isn't closed unless fully ratified. (36 months).

listermint · 06-05-2026 04:54PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124448513#Comment_124448513

No, not at all. You're conflating this software program to something related to national policy or road safety. It's a feature. His role isn't to ambassador on behalf of a private company or a few thousand potential users in ireland, not matter how much you want to access your toy.

There is no 'head in the sand' here. I don't see how you would assume this is any level of importance for him to concern himself with at all. We have other problems that are actual problems. National infrastructure being primary (for example).

Tesla Talk 2

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