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Any books about the Dublin and Monaghan bombing that go by the FG belief it was IRA not Loyalists

135

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,628 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    Christ on a bike, is this a serious post? The bombs went off when the people driving stopped for a sandwich and a pint. Anyone believing that nonsense is delusional.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,552 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    I wrote some people may be of the opinion they were pIRA bombs which were assembled south of the border…

    Personally I think it was more likely northerners who drove them south.

    But as the OP said, different theories on what could have happened, for all sorts of reasons. No M50 in them days either of course.

    As we do not know the facts I personally would keep an open mind. One thing I learnt over the decades is things were often not as they seemed. As we know now there were many double agents etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,066 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    'some people' again deployed to cover the musings of someone who throws out any nonsense in order to incriminate.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,960 ✭✭✭csirl


    I think we're going off topic here a bit. I dont think anyone believes the Dublin and Monaghan bombings were republicans. The various enquiries seem to accept they were loyalist, with some questions over whether or not the UK/N.I. authoriries were involved or had prior knowledge.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,552 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    The OP seems to state some people believe it was IRA explosives, which may have been accidentally or deliberately detonated by persons unknown, for whatever reason. Did it affect the amount of bombs going northwards or eastwards though?

    According to Wiki, by the summer of 1972, the British Army estimated that 90% of the bombs involving Home-Made Explosives (HMEs) used by the Provisional IRA originated from the South.

    In 1981, a British Home Office report stated that 88.7% of explosives used in Northern Ireland in 1981 originated from the Republic of Ireland.

    Some bombs were 1,500 kg / 1,600 kg, such as the one in Belfast in 1992, and the Manchester 1996 bombing. Even in 1998 a 450 kg bomb was discovered in a car at Dun Laoghaire ferry port bound for Britain.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,066 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    The OP states 'most in FG'

    In order to know this they would need to have polled specific people not the vague 'some people' nonsense you use as cover to get your own ideas out there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,960 ✭✭✭csirl


    Some people believe the earth is flat and the moon is made from green cheese!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,960 ✭✭✭csirl


    The RUC had "B-Specials" (equivalent of Garda Special Branch) operating in the Talbot St area during this era.

    My father, who was born in the north, but moved to Dublin after leaving school, tells an interesting story about bumping into a neighbour fron the village he grew up in, who he knew was a B-Special, while waiting for a bus in Talbot Street. Lets just say he was very annoyed that someone had recognised him and wasnt on a shopping trip.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,552 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    B-Specials could not have been operating in Dublin in the era of the Dublin Monaghan bombs, 1974, because the B specials were disbanded in May 1970.

    Maybe you meant he was a retired B-Special? Was he on a shopping trip or perhaps visiting relatives. friends or sightseeing? Was he annoyed you saw him because many retired policemen were murdered by Republicans during the troubles, and he was worried who you may tip off? People like 73 year old Justice Gibson and his wife were murdered on their way back to N.I., after holidays - someone must have tipped someone off?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,552 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    So you would disagree with the estimate that in 1972 90% of the bombs involving Home-Made Explosives (HMEs) used by the pIRA originated from south of the border? And the statistic that in 1981 88.7% of explosives used in N Ireland originated from the Republic of Ireland?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,960 ✭✭✭csirl


    RUC continued to have undercover detectives after 1970!!! Maybe re-named, but they existed. My father called them B-Specials as thats what they were called when he was growing up.

    Guy was on some sort of undercover activity and was annoyed at being recognised. Had no reason to be fearful of my father. They were neighbours and my father wasnt involved in anything. Just freaked out because he had been recognised - didnt expect someone to shout "hows it going (his name)" on a busy street in Dublin.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,552 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    So not only was this ex-B special policeman that your father knew as child was now not just an undercover detective, but was "on some sort of undercover activity" in a different jurisdiction! I call b.s. on your story. Maybe the bus stop ( you said he was at a bus stop) this northern undercover detective was the for 46a, and he was waiting on the bus to Dun Laoghaire, and the Liffey as it stank like hell. and a drunk on the bus told him he was an undercover cop from another country up to no good. Great story for a song.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,628 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    I'd say he was horrified when your dad called out his name. I was caught up in the bombing on talbot street that according to my mam. She said she was pushing me across the road from Connolly station onto Talbot Street in my pram, I was only a few months old, when the bombs went off. She said she was going to go into Guineys on the way to my grandmothers but as soon as the bombs went off she went down Foley street instead and then up my Grandmothers that way. She said she never moved so quick and then she had the worry about my brother and sister who were out playing with their friends in town that day and with no mobile phones she had no way to contact them. Thankfully they came running into my grand mothers about 10 minutes after us to tell what had happened.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 716 ✭✭✭myfreespirit


    The thugs in the B Specials all transmogrified into an even worse organisation of thuggish reprobates - the UDR.

    It is entirely plausible that the person saw a UDR member under cover in the Talbot Street area



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,552 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    You are wrong on many levels. Approximately 40,000 people served in the ranks of the Ulster Defence Regiment (UDR) over its lifetime from 1970 to 1992. Was there a ban on them visiting friends or family or shopping, or visiting cultural landmarks, south of the border? Many of the probably did not, for obvious reasons, but some did. Incidentally, did'nt Republican paramilitaries kill more Catholics during the troubles than the British security forces? So if you think the UDR were "thuggish reprobates", no doubt you think the pIRA were even more so.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,066 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Brilliant- holding state forces to the same standards a paramilitaries.

    Stooping low.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,552 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    The conclusion of myfreespirits logic is that the pIRA were much worse that state security forces. Which most people would agree with. During the troubles, SF was not even the largest nationalist party in N. Ireland, and had miniscule support south of the border.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,066 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    You hold state forces to the same standards as paramilitaries because it suits your bias.

    Appalling, it really is. Flip flopping all over the place.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,552 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    Wrong again. It is you who is flip flopping. I have consistently condemned all those who act or acted outside the law.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,066 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,552 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    Just stating the truth. I am not flip flopping in the slightest. Unlike you, I have also consistently condemned all those who act or acted outside the law. So no need for me to pivot in the slightest.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,066 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    So the British Army/UDR were just the same as the RA? Same standards of behaviour for both according to you.

    OK let’s see how long you hold to that belief. Good night



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,552 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    Of course the British Army/UDR were not the same as the pIRA. The former were the armed services of a democratically elected government. They wore uniforms, kept records,etc. The vast majority of the hundreds of thousands who served were law abiding people.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,066 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Didn’t even last until I got in the bed.

    Flip and then flop.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,552 ✭✭✭Francis McM




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 716 ✭✭✭myfreespirit


    You are completely wrong.

    The B Specials were nothing more than a Protestant paramilitary force designed and operated to "keep the croppies down".

    Changing the name of that band of Protestant thugs to the UDR did nothing to ameliorate that sectarian, murderous outlook. Little wonder the NI statelet descended into internecine warfare, when this was the calibre of the "security" forces.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 228 ✭✭cher nobyl




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,087 ✭✭✭GerardKeating


    Cannot find a source for this, but I do rememeber this "crackpot" theory being touted out shortly after the bombings in the media and (at the time) my main source of news would be RTÉ or this Press/Indo newpaper groups.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,552 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    It is you who is completely wrong. At the formation of the Ulster Defence Regiment (UDR) in April 1970, Catholics accounted for approximately 16% to 18% of the regiment's members. The percentage of the population who was Catholic in N.Ireland then was approx 31%. Not ideal, but a lot better than south of the border, where there were virtually no Protestants in the Irish army or Gardai in that era.

    Do not forget Éamon de Valera quote regarding a choice between a Protestant and a Catholic for a single job in 1930. De Valera stated that if he had one job to give and two applicants, one a Protestant and one a Catholic, he would unhesitatingly give the job to the Catholic.

    So not as black and white as you think.

    Post edited by Francis McM on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,960 ✭✭✭csirl


    Do you have stats for the Irish Army and Gardai?

    The Garda assertion in particular lacks credibility given their history. The Irish State did not replace the RIC, which was a UK run police force. They simply rebranded them as AGS - same individuals, different uniform badge It would be hard to believe that any UK run organisation of that era didnt have a high % of protestants.



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