Advertisement
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
https://www.boards.ie/group/1878-subscribers-forum

Private Group for paid up members of Boards.ie. Join the club.
Hi all, please see this major site announcement: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058427594/boards-ie-2026

"Green" policies are destroying this country

1113111321134113611371149

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭bored65


    The sector that’s at the time of this post is 3rd dirtiest in Europe behind Poland and … Germany?

    IMG_6850.jpeg

    Funny how after building 9GW of wind and solar we still have to burn so much gas and only manage to produce 1.3 out of 5.3 this fine evening eh??

    IMG_6851.jpeg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,404 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    So break even then lets say and ignore the export values. For that break even you have over 170k jobs on the go and an indigenous industry producing high quality food and drink that is costing the tax payer the grand total of, to summon my inner Mary Lou, "sweet feck all". And you don't like that?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,965 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    I`m sick sore and tired replying to posters in good faith who ignore what my reply was and come back with imaginary figures off the top of their head. @roosterman71 has in great detail laid out for you just how much those figures of your are a complete nonsense, and the idiocy of Irish greens when it comes to agriculture is undeniable at this stage. A collection of numerically illiterates who believe money grows on trees and finance rectitude is a planet in a far distant galaxy.

    In the main a collective who detest anything rural other than the countryside being turned into a wasteland for their viewing pleasure. While an OECD - FAO report showing that beef demand was projected to rise by 13% and butter by 3% - 4.4% annually, the Irish Green Party, in a country that has among the worlds highest traceability and inspection standards, were threatening to walk out of government if they didn`t get their way on culling cattle over methane emissions while Brazil, Australia, Argentina etc were increasing their herds to fill the demand. Do we have some special breed of methane super emitters that no other country has ? Because if we do not then it was insanity of the highest order.

    I have already explained to you where our current plan has got us too on emissions and how continuing to follow it will achieve nothing other than bankrupt the country and still have us paying the world`s highest electricity charges. But if you can show otherwise, then be my guest. If you even attempt to you would be the first, because anyone I have asked the same off has not come back with a single figure. Loads of waffle alright, but not so much as a single figure.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,043 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    Yes, hopefully we can break even and the 170k jobs are vitally important of course. We dont want to lose any of them.

    But my point is how do we pay the fines when they start to land in 2030.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,404 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    Don't have an answer really but I don't think converting farmland to solar farms is the answer. Could be a like for like cost to the country but I don't have figures. I'm all for solar myself, just not on quality land. Every rooftop should have panels on it and the government should be paying for it. Pissing around with grants and whatnot is just pissing around. Take the bull by the horns and buy the equipment, pay to install it and walk away. Local school to me was extended in the last couple of years and not one panel was put up on the old or new roofs. That's scandalous in my eyes. There's a big solar installation going on a few miles away on a closed bog with wind turbines already on site. That's good use of land that is otherwise left idle.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,965 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Totally agree on solar for use in private, or state buildings etc. but for a grid provider I don`t see it as making much sense for the financial cost as to what we would get from it with its low capacity factor when we would need it. Especially during winter when our demand is highest



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,965 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Totally agree on solar for use in private, or state buildings etc. but for a grid provider I don`t see it as making much sense for the financial cost as to what we would get from it with its low capacity factor when we would need it. Especially during winter when our demand is highest



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,076 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    China didn't "kill' green manufacturing. They just invested in green technology while Europe and America were being captured by the oil and nuclear lobbiests and assorted climate change deniers.

    Id love nothing more than for Ireland to become a world leader in manufacturing and servicing modern wind turbines, batteries and solar panels.

    I would love if our government had listened to the green party and green activists and improved building standards, insulation and energy efficiency decades ago so we wouldn't be so reliant on imported oil and gas.

    Ban billionaires



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,404 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    I get ya, but for the summer time it can reduce the need for gas and every reduction is positive in my view. Plus it' a lot cheaper than wind but takes up more room. That's why I think rooftop + battery for premises is a no brainer. The grid needs investment then to be able to handle exports from all seamlessly. Yer totally right on it's usefulness in the winter



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,793 ✭✭✭creedp


    Why are the Govt still allowing developers to build residential development after development without the requirement to install solar panels? Is it because there’s far more money for the green solar installer brigade to retro fit them down the road with with the taxpayer being on the hock for grants in addition to the opportunity cost of not installing them years earlier.

    It’s a bit fcuking rich to be gas lighting owners of older houses for not doing their bit to save the environment when the Govt wont even enforce their installation on new developments. Standard hypocrisy and double speak by our so called green politicians who are far more interested in lining the pockets of their crony elite



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,076 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    The greens aren't in government anymore in case you didn't notice

    Ban billionaires



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,793 ✭✭✭creedp


    Wow how did I miss that. In case you didn’t notice every politician is a die hard self professed environmentalist these days. But as usual talk is cheap



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,076 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Except thats the biggest pile of shite I've ever heard

    Ban billionaires



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,965 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    I`m not sure it is cheaper than wind. It has a higher strike price that both onshore and offshore wind and with it requiring inverters to convert from DC to AC will not make upgrading the grid any easier or cheaper and they do require a lot of space. For the Eirgrid, lowest of the 2050 project demand figures, on their own I have seen figures that would require the total area of Meath and Louth combined

    Far as I can see a 1GW installed capacity solar farm plus land lease will cost give or take €1Bn. The land leases they are looking for appear to be for 60 years, which would suggest at least one other solar farm on that land during that time frame. That would be the lifespan of a nuclear plant. Inverters burn out and have to be replaced every 10 - 15 years and they are not cheap. 10 - 15% of the cost of the panels. So for a 30 year lifespan best case around 100 m. With that added the capital cost would be €1.1 Bn. With a capacity factor here of 10% that is €11 Bn to generate 1GW. Over 60 years without adding anything for inflation for the second 30 years that is €22 Bn. Even Hinkley Point C will generate. 1GW for less.

    Unless I am missing something I do not see them as a grid utility, especially with what they would provide in winter when we would need it most, a great bang for bucks .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,965 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    China killed green manufacturing by pricing everyone else out of the market by using cheap coal to manufacture green tech, solar panels especially.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,076 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Why didn't we think of doing that.

    Its a fantastic use of the coal if it cuts years of Fossil fuel use down the line.

    Europe built our oil industry on oil platforms built from metal smelted with Coal. Europe still smelts huge amounts of metal using Coal, we just didn't use much of it to make renewable energy.

    Do you think any coal is used to make any of the concrete or metal or uranium used in the nuclear industry?

    Ban billionaires



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,076 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Your iphone is linked to slave labour

    I don't agree with slave labour btw. But i hate this selective blindness when climate change 'skeptics' think slavery is bad but only when its used to make renewable energy infrastructure.

    We should eradicate slavery world wide, not just selectively when it suits your argument.

    https://digital.sandiego.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1017&context=ksb-sscm

    1000022936.png

    Ban billionaires



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭bored65


    “Renewables” don’t grow naturally on bushes in China where happy peasants pick em for you

    As has been illustrated they are part of a “greenwashing” supply chain based on burning coal and extraction and refining of mountains of rare and toxic minerals and metals and building materials like concrete

    A supply chain that relies on slave and forced labour to add insult to injury

    And still needs to be replaced every twenty years due to wear and tear

    And as per the Guardian report linked higher up contains backdoors and kill switches which Chinese can use to bring down our grid, and are already openly threatening democratic EU processes

    Btw I noticed that you avoided supporting made in EU and continued to defend Chinese destruction of European industries and jobs (look what that done to US and their politics), what a sell out. Why does the modern green tinted Left hate the EU and the idea of people having jobs so much?

    The Left was all up in arms (rightly) about Trumps nonsense about Greenland, yet when it comes to China or Russia or Iran wanting to destroy our institutions they suddenly fall silent at best or openly support em at worst



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,793 ✭✭✭creedp




  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭bored65


    22x more co2 than France we are producing at time of this post on this fine morning

    We should just give the French that 28 billion we will have to handover to EU

    and have them produce electricity for us and fire everyone in our “green” scam electric sector that is double in price too add insult to injury when it comes to bills



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,965 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    It never ceases to amaze me the hoops greens will attempt to jump through when inconvenient facts get in the way of their narrative.China didn`t use coal to manufacture green tech for the good of the planet.

    In 2021 in Glasgow at COP 26 China, Japan, Russia, India, USA, and Australia all refused to sign the Global Coal to Clean Power Transmission statement because it would have been detrimental to their economics and the competitive edge using coal gave them. Australia in particular made no bones as to why they would not sign stating it "would not put cash before climate".

    Same time here in Ireland we had a bunch of looney tune greens in government telling us if we thrashed our economy and bankrupt the country with their green agenda the rest of the world would see how right they were and follow like lemmings jumping off a cliff.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,965 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    I`ve heard worse ideas.

    Last year French nuclear net exports balance was 92.3 TWh for which they charged €58 per MWh earning €5.4 Billion. Under ARENH they were also compelled to supply French renewable companies with 100 TWh at €42 per MWh to keep them in business. Here for 2025 our average wholesale price was €114 per MWh.

    in 2025 our total demand was 32 TWh and even at that we still imported 14.6% of that 32 TWh attempting to shield the real level of emissions of this failed plan we are following.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,076 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    We need to invest in our future energy grid. That doesn't mean bankrupting our economy, it means planning ahead and resourcing the necessary changes so that we can close down our current fossil fuel plants and transition to renewables and to also focus on getting those interconnectors up and running

    What happened instead, we had one party genuinely pushing for changes, as junior coalition partners with the main FF and FG parties who were only using the GP as scapegoats and only really paid lip service.

    And now we have people like you and the other stalwarts in this thread coming on and still pretending that 'green policies' have harmed this country. One poster even said it's a disgrace that new developments were being built without solar and made some conspiracy that the solar installers were making too much money on retrofits…. This is the kind of mad logic that flows through this thread like backhanders through a climate change summit.

    What has 'ruined the country', is the lip service, not just to the 'green agenda', but to everything, housing, infrastructure, the health system etc

    If we had committed to properly building offshore wind, we would be on the way to reaping the benefits by now, We would have more BEVs on the road, more smart meters, proper time of use tariffs, upgraded transmission networks, upgraded ports, servicing infrastructure, if we had pushed water treatment, interconnectors, cycling infrastructure, home upgrades, transitioning away from fossil fuels, we wouldn't have been arguing about getting in LNG tankers 4 years ago because of a crisis in fossil fuels, and now looking at another massive crunch without even access to LNG, we would be on the road to energy independence instead of back to panic stations and facing spending billions more on income supports to pay the oil companies for their supernormal profits….

    Ban billionaires



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭bored65


    First of all we can’t even get LNG in Ireland as greens blocked construction of a terminal when they were in power, all the gas comes from either Corrib and a single pipeline

    Secondly, we built 9GW of wind and solar, and what do we have to show for it? Co2 emissions that are an order of magnitude larger than France and second highest electricity prices in Europe, and capacity factor of 30% (wind) and 10% (solar) which means most of time we are burning gas

    Yet somehow “more” of the same shite (which will cost hundreds of billions euro) will solve the problem instead of digging us into a bigger hole

    IMG_6855.jpeg
    Post edited by bored65 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,076 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    For context, Ireland introduced our first commercial wind turbines in 1992 and we first started to auction off Irish renewable resources in 1996. In 2004, Ireland installed some of the first ever offshore wind turbines on the Arklow bank, and could have led the world in offshore wind (like Scotland are) but failed to build the infrastructure to support phase 2 and allowed the scheme to collapse and since then, its been mishandled projects one after another, under funding, lack of support and pandering to vested interests in agriculture and nimby objections (which would be a million times worse for Nuclear BTW)

    Ireland started first with offshore wind, 3 years before Scotland, but we completely failed to deliver anything for the last 22 years and are now decades behind. Scotland installed almost 6gw of Offshore wind already They export a lot of energy to the UK and have a huge industry that they can benefit from for generations.

    Ban billionaires



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,076 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    I know we didn't buld the LNG terminal, isn't amazing how the country didn't fall apart like some people were warning us about 4 years ago. If we had built one, it would have been a massive white elephant, and committed us to imports at crazy prices in the current market if we can even get them with your friend Trump's antics in the gulf.

    on your other point. Onshore wind is cheap to build but is rubbish on a calm day. Offshore wind, which we didn't build, can generate power even on calm days like today. If Ireland had done what scotland did, we would be generating about 1.7gb of electricity right now from wind

    image.png

    Ban billionaires



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,785 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Not sure if the objections would be a million times worse for nuclear, and in fairness all you need to stop any major infrastructure project in this country is one objection! In China now they are trialing nuclear power to provide district heating so there's always the possibility of offering this major benefit to objecting neighbours

    https://www.iaea.org/newscenter/multimedia/videos/chinas-carbon-free-district-heating-plan



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭bored65


    They do that (district heating from nuclear) in the radioactive wasteland country of Finland

    No wonder most of the population supports nuclear there, electric prices that are half of ours (while making 6x less co2) are a bonus!

    country didn’t fall apart but it does have one of the dirtiest grids in Europe (precisely because we are so dependent on gas now to backup unreliable renewables) with highest electricity prices completely dependent on a single pipeline, if anything were to happen to it we would be plunged into the Stone Age for a year

    https://theliberal.ie/govt-petrified-as-ireland-is-now-severely-vulnerable-to-major-impact-of-gas-supply-disruption/

    offshore doesn’t help as you only get 40% capacity factor instead of 30% for onshore wind, so still burning gas most of the time



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,785 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian




Advertisement
Advertisement