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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 929 ✭✭✭eoinbn


    You do know there is a difference between saying they played role and saying that they

    "Took 70 seconds for wind and solar to bring their grid"

    There were multiple reasons that have been well documented.

    As for the interconnector.It was pushed back from 2026 to 2028 last year. It has now been pushed back from early 2028 to late 2028. The way you presented it was that it has just recently been delayed by years. It is not even relevant to the thread but you seem to view anything negative as a positive for your argument.

    Post edited by eoinbn on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,965 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Solar on capital costs alone does not even stack up against nuclear for the most expensive nuclear power plant ever built when it comes to grid supply. It has a capacity factor of 10% here for the year which drops to 5% or less during the winter when our demand is greatest.

    The three peak time daily demands are morning, (07:00 - 09:00), lunch time/mid afternoon and evening (17:00 - 19:00). During winter solar supplies nothing for two of them, morning and evening. For the morning demand it is still asleep in the dark, and by evening it has gone back to sleep in the dark.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭bored65


    You are arguing with people whom want a fantasy they been sold on be true and no amounts of facts would change their minds

    I can post links to Spanish report for example and even point at exact page numbers and sections like i done in parallel thread showing how renewables caused, contributed in the crucial 70 seconds and then made it harder to recover during the Spanish outage that lasted days and has directly led to deaths of 7 people

    And still, thou shall not question the narrative which has ensured we have one of the highest electricity prices in world that is still many multiples every day of co2 generated compared to clean green civilised countries



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,736 ✭✭✭Consonata


    You were proven wrong on this one like 30 pages ago, and yet.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,965 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    I have no idea what post you are referring to, but it seems you do.

    The search function on this site is crap so if you would be good enough to let me know the post number I would appreciate it.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,965 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    There is a fair bit of that cult like attitude from some, but it isn`t too difficult to work out who they are. Ask them to detail what they propose and how much it would cost and the lack of a single figure shows them up for what they are.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭bored65




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,076 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    I presume you're posting this while on an Irish made phone, using irish made components connected to a wifi router that is made in Ireland and connected to a fiber phone exchange made using organic Irish produce

    Also presume that you're advocating for a fully irish nuclear power plant built and engineered in Ireland with no foreign investment or supply chain

    Ban billionaires



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭bored65


    Remember that post when the Chinese decide that we are an “unfriendly” country and send us back to Stone Age via remote backdoors

    They already are threatening Europe and don’t want us producing anything while the Leftie / Green watermelons cheer them on



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,076 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Can i get that brand of Irish phone youre using?

    Ban billionaires



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭bored65


    I’m using an iPhone which was made in India


    where possible I buy things made in EU and my next phone will be European as there are now many emerging brands

    Why do left wingers and green watermelons hate the concept of made in EU and defend China? Sinn Feiners have a long history of anti EU policies

    Do you think it’s a good green policy that Chinese whom already killed all European “green” manufacturing are now doing same to car industry?

    Do you think it’s a good green policy to let them run software in critical infrastructure with back doors and remote kill switches handing control over our lives to unelected elites on other side of world?

    Do you think it’s ok for millions of Europeans to be made unemployed in name of “green” policies that don’t benefit us?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,785 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    The reason you are using a phone manufactured in India and I am driving a car that was manufactured in China is because the same tech was not available from EU manufacturers at the time we purchased them. Like yourself the car I bought 3 years ago is now being manufactured in the EU so if I decide to stay with the brand I will be buying EU, just like yourself

    If the EU want to get serious about saving EU jobs they need to do as China was doing and investing in the technology, slapping tariffs on products to quote Ursula Von Der Leyen is "a mistake"

    Jobs in sectors not embracing the green policies of the EU are time limited. The European workers in these areas need to start accepting that fossil fuels will soon be a thing of the past and either upskill or prepare for retirement



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭bored65


    See article higher up or thread here

    EU is serious but being threatened and blackmailed by China

    I don’t understand why anyone who claims to believe in democracy would want to handover even more chunks of European economy to China and our security

    You have people rightfully being pissed off about Trump and Greenland, but here we have yet another authoritarian regime that is also threatening everything about our day to day lives and jobs



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,785 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Not sure what China thinks it can do in retaliation to these proposed measures but yeah let them threaten away I say



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭bored65


    See the guardian article higher up about all sorts of backdoors and kill switches in the “green” equipment they been selling

    There are probably other levers too that would remain the the gray warfare area that likes of Russia been waging on us in Europe too



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,785 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    I wouldn't be overly worried about any kill-switches on any of our green technology. Only takes one hacker to bring something back to life



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,043 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    The chances of nuclear being approved is minimal. We can use Solar today.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,965 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    The realities of paying for this current plan are non existent and even if we could it would double the strike price due to green hydrogen production and treble it whenever we would use it. Not only would this current plan bankrupt the country, it would also leave us with the most expensive household charges on the planet.

    We could use solar on the days that it is there. On the days when our demand is highest during winter and we would really need it, it would provide nothing for at least 16 hours of the day, or for two of the three peak demand times, and even then it`s capacity factor during winter is 5% or less. For what it costs in comparison to what it would delivers when we need it, it doesn`t make any economic sense as a grid utility.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,043 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    Its going to cost us billions in EU climate related fines if we carry on using farms for food we dont need and export daily.

    Avoiding those fines and producing some solar energy at the same time & as part of a broader energy strategy, makes a lot of sense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭bored65


    Big bad EU overlords will take our money since we are nothing more than a colony of the evil empire in which we have no say in how it runs /s



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,727 ✭✭✭Mr. teddywinkles




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭bored65


    Best of luck to any government which hands over 12.5x Children’s hospitals worth of taxpayers money

    Coincidentally 28 billion euro can power the whole country (and heat all of Dublin) without co2 using South Korean tech which Koreans can build and run on time and money and power country cleanly for 60+ years

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barakah_nuclear_power_plant

    Post edited by bored65 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,965 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Agri food exports in 2025 were worth €21.2 billion to our economy, and the agri sector employees 170,000. The same as in Tech and over double of those employed in pharma.

    The present plan was to reduce emissions by 51% by 2030. It is now not going to achieve even 23% by then even with us importing a large percentage of our electricity attempting to do so. The present plan will not see us anywhere close to zero emissions either by 2050. Based on our projected demand for 2050 on even the lower Eirgrid projections following the current plan would see us burning the same gas if not more in 2050 as we are now.

    How many businesses looking at those kind of interim figures for 2030 would even dream of continuing with their policy without them going bankrupt ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,043 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    Agri only contributes about 250 million to the exchequer.

    It receives much more than that in subsidies & is a net cost to the tax payer.

    The jobs are of course the large benefit to society and nobody wants to see people lose jobs, but that doesnt mean farm jobs cant diversify.

    The climate fines coming down the line will make it unsustainable to continue exporting and producing food as we do today.

    If we are shelling out billons in climate fines and housing and infrastructure projects get cancelled because we have no cash to pay for them, people will rightly demand change.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,404 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    https://www.gov.ie/en/department-of-agriculture-food-and-the-marine/publications/annual-review-and-outlook-for-agriculture-food-and-the-marine-2024/

    Agri-food is Ireland’s oldest and largest indigenous exporting sector. In 2024, Irish agri-food exports achieved a record €19 billion, reaching 190 markets worldwide and accounting for 8.6 % of Ireland’s exports. Over 169,300 people were employed in the sector, representing 6.1% of the total workforce across more than 133,000 farms, 2,000 fishing vessels and aquaculture sites, and over 2,000 food production and beverage enterprises. 

    According to Google, Direct Supports: Over €1.77 billion (combined EU and State funds) is distributed annually via CAP (Common Agricultural Policy) payments, which are vital for farm household incomes.

    Finally, For every €1 of state investment in the agri-food sector, it is estimated to generate substantially more in the local economy because farmers tend to spend their income within their local towns and villages, unlike many foreign-owned industries.

    The entire DAFM budget for 2026 is ~€2.3 billion, while the sector exports multiples of that and gives local employment to rural areas.

    I have to ask, where are you getting your figures from?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,043 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    The 19 billion isn't tax revenue.

    The tax paid is only about 250 to 300 million.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,404 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    You didn't say tax revenue

    Agri only contributes about 250 million to the exchequer.

    From Gemini:

    Calculating the exact tax revenue from agriculture is trickier than other sectors because "farming" spans everything from a small family holding to a massive dairy processor. However, we can break it down using Revenue data for the Agri-Food Sector (which includes primary production, food, and beverages).

    For the most recent full fiscal cycles (2024–2025), the sector’s direct tax contribution to the Irish Exchequer is approximately €1.5 billion to €2 billion annually across these three main streams:

    1. Income Tax (PAYE, USC, and PRSI)

    This is the largest slice of the tax pie.

    Amount: Roughly €1 billion+.

    Source: It comes from the 170,000 people employed in the sector. While many primary farmers have fluctuating incomes (and thus lower income tax in "bad" years), the employees in high-value dairy processing and beverage plants are significant PAYE contributors.

    2. Corporation Tax

    Amount: Approximately €400 million – €500 million.

    Context: Unlike the "Big Tech" firms, Irish agri-food companies (like Kerry Group, Glanbia/Tirlán, and Ornua) are often Irish-owned or co-operatives. While they pay substantial tax, they also reinvest heavily in local R&D, which can provide tax offsets.

    3. VAT (Value Added Tax)

    Amount: Roughly €100 million – €200 million (net).

    The Catch: Most "unprocessed" food is zero-rated for VAT in Ireland. However, VAT is collected on "luxury" items like alcohol, soft drinks, and highly processed prepared consumer foods.

    Flat Rate Scheme: The government also pays back a "Flat Rate Addition" (increased to 5.1% in 2025) to non-VAT registered farmers to compensate them for the VAT they pay on their inputs (diesel, machinery, etc.).

    I have to ask, where are you getting your figures from?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭bored65


    That’s a funny attitude to take @BlueSkyDreams

    Our electricity sector earns net zero in exports, unlike nuclear France which is now Europes powerhouse which earns the French state 5 billion per year mostly by selling to Germany who wasted a trillion euro on Energiewende and have little to show for it (and still produce 5x co2 of France)!

    While leaving us with second most expensive electricity in Europe right behind them Germans

    By your logic we should get rid of this wasteful sector of the economy and their lies, a sector which employs a fraction of agriculture and offers no benefits to exchequer or consumers 😂



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,043 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    My search was AI also but even taking your figures, subsidies are around 2 billion for agri, so there is still no surplus for the exchequer.

    Once we then factor in the cost of the climate fines from 2030, the tax payer is heavily out of pocket as far as Agri is concerned.

    There has to be ways of avoiding the emissions and fines, while still maintaining the employment levels.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,043 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    Our green electricity sector isnt going to cost us billions in fines.



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