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How many of us think that unification is no longer a priority and don't really want unification ?

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Comments

  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,951 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Define soon. Cause it isn't happening in the next decade and that is clear from just a cursory glance at UK politics which is what matters.

    There is literally zero chance of it coming up in the current Labour government and whatever ragtag bunch of misfits get in next time round are unlikely to want to derail themselves with it either. About the only chance it has of coming up is a majority Green government. So not only is it not a priority for Ireland, it is not even close to a priority for the UK. So no discussions or preparations are going to happen (they can not be done solo).

    It is incumbent upon those who care about this to make it a priority not simply moan about how it isn't.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,061 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    That is as simple as leadership change tbh.

    Michael Martin has been shown to run his party by dictat, he has maneouvered himself into a position on it that he can't back off from.

    will that change in FF, yes.
    Is FG changing on the matter, signs of that too.

    Unionism continues to decline and calls from NI get stronger (SDLP getting increasingly antsy waiting) and the UK will have no choice but to call one.

    It will change and change very quickly IMO.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,448 ✭✭✭Montage of Feck


    Surely it's the Irish government that should have an actual plan in place for a future united Ireland. It's a huge indictment of the lack of ambition and bravery in our hundred years of self governance.

    🙈🙉🙊



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,061 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Fact is, FF and FG got comfortable with the power swapping between them over the decades. So comfortable did it become, they have revealed it became a sham fight between them by easily and tacitly merging to keep power.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,951 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    What on earth does this (utterly incorrect) version of political history have to do with Irish people not caring about a United Ireland?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,061 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    It's my opinion as to why a UI has not been prioritised by the main two parties of government here since partition and in answer to a poster who wondered why it hadn't been prioritised.
    You are entitled to your own view.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,951 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    It is not prioritised because people don't care and because until recently it was completely pie in the sky anyway, and is only now fairly unlikely instead. It has a long way to go before it is remotely plausible. It is incumbent upon those who do care to make it an issue others care about however, that is how advocacy works.

    It would also help if the primary political party who advocate for it did not completely ignore the polity that is responsible for bringing it about.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,061 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    How do they express how much they care?

    They need to be asked the question, they need this to be discussed in a serious way by a government responding to the constitutional mandate that aspires to a UI.
    That is being sytmied by forces within the two main political parties, As evidenced by Leo Varadkar's advocacy for a UI as soon as he slipped the clutches of his parties control.
    Will that happen?
    Yes, I think it will, we are on a path now that will inexorably lead to the question being asked. I'm not alone in thinking that it is inevitable the question will be asked now.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,951 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Polls exist. They repeatedly show that it is basically rooted to the bottom of the priority list for the people of Ireland. Your complaint basically boils down to "why aren't other parties taking up our main issue that the rest of the population doesn't care about even though we do nothing to change that". It is an absurd premise.

    The thread asks "is unification no longer a priority" and the answer is that it never has been for the vast, vast majority of the country.

    Also, if SF truly want a BP they need to address that concern to the SoS for NI and Westminster. Except they won't, because they are children who play make believe that that government doesn't exist.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,061 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    So outline a strategy for parties not in power to make it a priority?

    You'll soon run into the same answer. Constitutional change has to be led by governing parties.

    How much onus you put on a governing party to fulfill or even start the process of fulfilling a constitutional aim is up to you. It is in the constitution because guess who? cared about it enough to enshrine it there via referendum.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,448 ✭✭✭mattser


    The mind numbing circular discussion is back in town. Bit like a UI…going nowhere in a hurry.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,331 ✭✭✭✭SuperBowserWorld


    ...edit ... blah

    Post edited by SuperBowserWorld on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,799 ✭✭✭✭LambshankRedemption


    Whether or not we can afford a UI at the moment, and the jury is still out on that, the fact of the matter is, we could only afford it relatively recently.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,544 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    Even recently we can not afford N.I.

    As of March 2026, Ireland's gross national debt is approximately €229.2 billion,, with an average debt of around €38,460 per person….that is one of the highest in the world, despite all the EU handouts we got, the FDI from America etc.

    As of early 2026, nearly 320,000 households in Ireland are in arrears on their electricity bills, a record high representing roughly one in seven households.

    Few people under 40 can afford to buy a home. Imagine what the economy in Ireland would be like if we had to divert a reasonable amount of money to our defence forces, because our "neutrality" is a joke - we depend on other countries to do the heavy lifting for us.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 61,055 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Sure they seem to be getting on just fine up north. Leave well alone!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,061 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    There is a myth, mainly emanating from those anti a UI that what is on offer is some sort of debt free Republican nirvana.
    No serious UIers are offering that.

    A UI will have all the challenges of any modern western economy and society.

    People are being failed in both jurisdictions at the moment particularly NI. It cannot function properly and never has since partition.

    Question will be, is a whole island of constitutionally recognised equals with the inherent economies of scale and absence of wasted double spending better placed to look after all of it's population in a modern world?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,544 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    A U.I. would only add to the problems the country already has. We already have 1 in 7 households in arrears in electricity, one of the highest national debts per head of population in the world etc.

    Our problems would only be increased massively if we took on the running costs of N.I., N.I's share of UK national debt if UK was to fragment, the increased violence and security, controversies about policing , anthem, flag, Irish language etc.

    And N.I. would be worse off if it did not have tariff free access to the UK market, as it does now. Our HSE even pays up to 8 times for medicines what the NHS pays, no wonder we cannot even build a childrens hospital properly. Without shafting the taxpayer here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,061 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    This only works if you live in a bubble where 'we' are insulated from what happens in NI.

    Surely the painful and tragic reality that we aren't should have dawned on people by now.

    NI is a failed statelet and that shows no signs of changing under it's current uncaring governance. Tarrif free access isn't going to change anything much bar on a balance sheet.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,544 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    "Tarrif free access isn't going to change anything" you say? N.I. already enjoys tariff free access to both the mainland UK as well as the EU. You think N.I. would be better off if their were trade barriers / tariffs between N.I. and Britain?

    Lucky you are not minister for Finance. N.I. is in an enviable trade position in Europe, with free access to both UK ( a G7 nation) and the EU. Pity the S.F. led administration in N.I. cannot lead N.I. better though, I agree with you Michelle O'Neill is failing people there big time, despite all the handouts she gets.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭JohnDoe2025


    Northern Ireland's governance is led by Sinn Fein. I would agree with you that it is uncaring.

    The package they have put in place in response to the fuel crisis is miserable and miserly compared to what our Government has done here.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,061 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Who says that is going to disappear?
    That could be maintained by the stroke of a pen in Westminster.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,061 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    The mythmaking that NI is governed in the same way as here continues.

    Not worth correcting your likes yet again as it has been done many times and blithely ignored.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭JohnDoe2025


    That is just silliness. There is a trade barrier between the UK and the EU.

    Unless you envisage a united Ireland departing the EU, Northern Ireland will lose free market access to the UK.

    Northern Ireland is now the fastest growing region of the UK because of this dual access.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,837 ✭✭✭scottser


    I would imagine a UI would still involve the 6 retaining some form of free trade access and free movement of people to the UK for at least the next hundred years. It certainly won't be the seismic break people think it would be.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,061 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    All it requires is agreement between The EU (which a UI would be a part of) and the UK.

    Tarriff free trade depends on 'agreements' not geography.

    People here and elsewhere rubbished the idea of a sea border, but two sides made an agreement and it happened. GB will be looking to measures like this to ease their departure.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,544 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    So in the event of a U.I., you think a border would continue in Ireland for another 100 years, and in the new 32 country "Republic of Ireland" people in Donegal or Dundalk would be at a disadvantage in not having free trade access to Britain, the same as their neighbours in Derry or Newry would have? That would be discriminatory against some of the citizens of the new 32 county Republic. I though a Republic should treat all its citizens equally?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,061 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    It's commonly called a 'transition period'.

    As the poster said, there is likely not going to be a 'seismic break'. There will be all sorts of easements built into the plan, not exactly a difficult concept to grasp.

    I could almost guarantee that GB will give generously on trade and freedom of movement. It's not going to impact much on them economically.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,837 ✭✭✭scottser


    No, that's not what I said.

    I'm simply saying that a large section of Northern Irish folk will want to retain their UK citizenship and the associated benefits thereof. The people of Donegal or Louth won't enjoy those benefits unless they are UK passport holders, I guess. It stands to reason that there would need to be a long transitional run in for a UI to work.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,544 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    So you would, in the event of a U.I., still be in favour of a border between the 6 counties and the other 26.

    Interesting.

    And in a U.I. it sounds as if you would be in favour of it NOT being very united, as you would have free acess to UK market for businesses in Belcoo but not in Blacklion a few hundred meters away? Would the different tax rates still apply to VRT between Belcoo and Blacklion? Could Belcoo, Co. Fermanagh residents hold on to their FREE doctor visits and NHS in a U.I.? Would public servants and pensioners be paid the same in Belcoo compared with a few hundred meters away in Blacklion? Would VAT continue to be payable on housing on the south side of the border as it is now, with no VAT north of the border as it is now?

    Reminds me of how Hong Hong was leased from China for 99 years, and thrived because of the lease with Britain during that period. But I do not think you have things thought through at all.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,544 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    You said "I would imagine a UI would still involve the 6 retaining some form of free trade access".

    That would be interesting as at the moment all EU countries have to charge import duty / tariffs etc on goods coming from Britain, and vice versa.

    You suggest a 32 county new Republic of Ireland, cherishing all its citizens equally, would not have to do that in the case of a U.I.

    Not very consistent.

    If you think a border would continue in Ireland after a U.I, allowing free trade between the 6 counties and Britain, do you, as I asked FrancieBrady, think

    " Would the different tax rates still apply to VRT between Belcoo and Blacklion? Could Belcoo, Co. Fermanagh residents hold on to their FREE doctor visits and NHS in a U.I.? Would public servants and pensioners be paid the same in Belcoo compared with a few hundred meters away in Blacklion? Would VAT continue to be payable on housing on the south side of the border as it is now, with no VAT north of the border as it is now?"



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