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Starmer is in big trouble. If he goes, could gov fall - impact on the messy world we are in now

24567

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,575 ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    If something like this had of happened under the previous Conservative government, especially the Boris Johnson government, it'd have been old news the same day it broke…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,533 ✭✭✭aidanodr


    Olly Robbins and others speaking before a committee live .. started 9am I think.

    Watching whats being said on twitter etc.

    Starmer is just not liked as a person/personality I am concluding. Viseraly so by many

    Of course we also have the UK right wing press which is probably most of its press at this stage involved in all this no doubt and keeping this story alive. Not happy with Starmers moving UK back into the EU? Dismantling there beloved BREXIT?

    Twitter thread:

    By the time Robbins started as permanent secretary at the Foreign Office, Mandelson had already been appointed and announced, he points out, "without caveats". "He'd already been given access to the building and low classification IT and higher classification briefing".

    Post edited by aidanodr on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,533 ✭✭✭aidanodr




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,533 ✭✭✭aidanodr


    UK post Olly Robbins this morning seems to be coming to the conclusion all this is a nothing burger.

    The Guardian started all this last thursday it seems? Where on the political spectrum are the Guardian these days? Or more to the point WHO owns the guardian these days and where are they on the political spectrum?

    WIKIPEDIA:

    "The Guardian Media Group's owner, the Scott Trust Endowment Fund"

    "the paper is often considered to be "linked inextricably" to the Labour Party"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,963 ✭✭✭csirl


    It appears this is the only instance in recent years where a "borderline" recommendation was overturned by the FCO.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,395 ✭✭✭Exiled Rebel


    The guardian has been owned by the Scott Trust since 1936. A non profit organisation set up to ensure the newspapers editorial independence. The paper is left leaning and always has been. All profits are reinvested in the papers journalism.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 76,178 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    The Guardian is owned by its staff via the Scott Trust. Same as the Irish Times here (Irish Times Trust).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,533 ✭✭✭aidanodr


    Thanks @Exiled Rebel - meanwhile found same after a bit of de google:

    WIKIPEDIA:

    "The Guardian Media Group's owner, the Scott Trust Endowment Fund"

    "the paper is often considered to be "linked inextricably" to the Labour Party"

    With the Guardian sort of leading this vetting story by an article last thursday I was wondering about its ownership due to most UK media now owned by right wing leaning owners?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,533 ✭✭✭aidanodr


    One wonders though, did Starmer jump the gun sacking Robbins, especially after his appearance at this committee this morning?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,963 ✭✭✭csirl


    On the process, I would think it should work as follows.

    Vetting people give a yes/no.

    Some yes's may be denied following further FCO scrutiny, based on additional imformation the FCO has, but the vetting people dont.

    Now, if the FCO thought the vetting people got it wrong i.e gave a no in error - and this can happen e.g. an error in the information they used; surely the FCO would simply point this out to the Vetting people and the vetting result would be re-issued as a yes based on the correct information?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,987 ✭✭✭yagan


    It used to be the Manchester Guardian.

    My impression is that Starmer is neither loved nor hated, he's just bland. He is essentially a compromise PM after the scalding years of brexit turmoil which have in reality delivered sub par results.

    The rate has their ten year gilt bond is experiencing the wildest blowout amongst the OECD as far I can see. With The Telegraph sale to the very pro EU Alex Springer group going ahead I can see groundwork being laid in the more conservative ends of British polity towards the economic necessity of at least aligning with the single market.

    However it will take the emergence of pro version of UKip before momentum for rejoining the union gains traction, although the Greens and LibDems already fly that fleg in England.

    The Mandy story is awful, but it's more likely to push those outraged more left than right. The right is toxic pit of Brexit droppings.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,533 ✭✭✭aidanodr


    Badenochs response to Olly Robbins:

    "The evidence from Olly Robbins is devastating to Keir Starmer.It is clear that No10 not only made the appointment before vetting was completed, but that Mandelson was already acting as the Ambassador before the vetting - even seeing highly classified documents.With this, and the 'constant pressure' No10 applied to the appointment and their 'dismissive attitude' to vetting Mandelson, it is now absolutely clear that 'full due process' was not followed.Keir Starmer has misled the House."

    A reply to this tweet:

    Robbins evidence backed up 100% everything that Keir Starmer said. Literally every word. He even confirmed he didn't bow to any pressure.

    Her first line would almost indicate she did up this response BEFORE Robbins spoke or even finished??

    All I can say is Badenoch is just aweful as a leader of opposition. How / Why did she get that position in the first place? All the better for labour and Starmer of course



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,000 ✭✭✭midlander12


    'Yes' is the short answer there. A substantial payout on the way I suspect, to supplement his lump sum.

    I think myself it's the Matthew Doyle story that's the 'smoking gun' here, if there is one. I'm not sure we learnt anything this morning that we didn't know already about Mandelson, except that the vetting failure related to issues other than Epstein (presumably his Russian and Chinese links). Simply put, Starmer wanted a friend of a paedophile in Washington to pander to another more powerful friend of said paedophile (in the national interest, of course). And at the time, the media and the Tories and even Reform UK agreed it was a jolly good idea.

    Cabinet Office suggested Mandelson did not need security vetting, says Robbins as he describes ‘constant pressure’ from No 10 – live

    Robbins says security vetting shouldn't be 'pass/fail piety test', because UK state needs 'interesting' people working for it
    Robbins said that security vetting should not become a “pass/fail piety test”. He explained:
    If we turn DV [developed vetting] into a pass/fail piety test, what we end up doing is robbing the British state of a lot of very, very capable people with complicated lives and potential vulnerabilities.
     And I really, really don’t want that for the sake of this country. If anything, this government needs to be served by an ever increasing range of people with broad experience and interesting lives, not suddenly find that the only people we can employ in sensitive roles are ones who raise no issues whatsoever.

    He is of course correct in that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 447 ✭✭somenergy


    Simply put a pedo would be more acceptable to the most powerful pedo threatening a trade war with the world.

    I dont think Mandelson would have got the gig if Harris was elected probably a lot more cross party support at the time, but hey still doing it sending Andrew's brother to meet his pedo friend nice....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,965 ✭✭✭Jack Daw


    Appointing Mandelson is something terribly wrong though, not being all over his vetting when he was being put forward for the role means he's seriously incompetent.

    All the bullshit from Labour about how much better they were than the Tories and they would clean up politics, all the bullshit from the UK media that they would bring in a new era of stability and essentially they've proven themselves to be every bit as bad as what came before them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,533 ✭✭✭aidanodr


    Early on one could hear the public view, after olly robins this morning was still on starmers side. I am noticing as the day progresses this is changing lots towards "I'm afraid he has to go" .. this also from labour voters.

    I think Starmer not there in the commons for Badenochs emergency debate this afternoon ( on now ) is a mistake? She seems to have free reign at this. The PMs rep will not be able to answer the Q's Badenoch is posing ... So to an extent go unanswered and left out there.

    The big issue for him aside from the core vetting issue that won't go away is sacking Robbins. Possible huge unfair dismissal thing on the way there.

    I am veering towards Starmer falling on his sword. Could happen sooner than we think?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,000 ✭✭✭midlander12


    He's surely gone soon after May 7 anyway? Might as well hang on as a sort of caretaker at this stage, given the Iran situation etc. Deep down they're probably also wondering if something so awful might happen that Mandelson might be all forgotten about.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,495 ✭✭✭SupaCat95


    Mandelson is a different animal. He was the power behind Tony and Cherie Blair. He is a WEF attender. Never in the fore ground but omnipresent



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    He wasn't called the prince of darkness for nothing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,245 ✭✭✭✭bnt


    He reminds me of Lord Baelish (Littlefinger) from Game of Thrones.

    Government resting upon the will and universal suffrage of the people has no anchorage except in the people's intelligence.

    — Grover Cleveland



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,647 ✭✭✭brickster69


    Floodgates open as 67 Labour MP's officially ask Starmer to resign, 14 more needed and he is toast. At current rate it could be within the hour.

    The old world is dying, and the new world struggles to be born: now is the time of monsters. — Antonio Gramsci



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,533 ✭✭✭aidanodr


    I await a message from the DONALD either as he gets on a helicopter from his plane from the oval office but most likely a rant on Truth Social saying GOOD RIDDANCE to Kier and never likeld him .. blah blah



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,533 ✭✭✭aidanodr


    Sky and bloomberg saying he is gone tomorrow morning



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,113 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Fascinating to watch. They just can't right the good olde ship UK.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,533 ✭✭✭aidanodr


    Come on - lets be done with it UK - dump Kier, call an election and hand the keys of No. 10 to Farage .. We know you want this :D



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,113 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Unless somebody gets a grip, that's what's gonna happen.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,533 ✭✭✭aidanodr


    Mmmm .. Will he be gone by tomorrow? FOUR Senior Cabinet Ministers no less



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 137 ✭✭dp22250


    Plenty other puppets to take his place. The once Great Britain has fallen.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 18,074 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    He'll be gone tomorrow I reckon.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,642 ✭✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    ...

    Post edited by Quantum Erasure on


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