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Luas Finglas

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,043 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    Does make you wonder if Metro will ever get built. I would take 2040 as a win.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,668 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    So what?

    That’s really not my problem - I am not going to spoonfeed you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,506 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Lol🤣 wtf is wrong with you man you’re so angry!

    Just admit you haven’t got a link that shows where ESB or Eirgrid have said that they won’t be able to connect any of the major infrastructure projects due to grid constraints.

    Simple ask don’t get snarky.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,668 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Frankly I’m irritated because I provided a link that confirms exactly what I posted above, and replying that “it’s behind a paywall” really is not something that I have any control over.

    You need to talk to the Sunday Independent about that or use your own initiative to find a way of reading it.

    Now posting what you posted directly above is insulting me. The article does do that and telling me that I’ve not done what you asked is insulting to me.

    I and others post stuff that we glean from time to time from sources that we may have.

    When I read posts such as yours implying that I don’t know what I’m talking about, makes me ask why should I bother.

    At this stage I’ve answered or corrected so many of your posts over the years that you probably should know that I do know what I’m talking about, but to be honest I’m not going to bother any more.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,584 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    It's going to take 4 years at least to tender and build the thing, can the grid issues not be sorted out in parallel?

    Put your money where yer mouth is... Subscribe and Save Boards!

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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,822 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Grid issues are no barrier as far as I can see. Absolute worst case scenario is we have the project complete but unable to launch services. That’s a far better position than not having it at all. The furore and bad publicity would get it grid connected pretty fast.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,506 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Wow the arrogance is strong with this one- you’ve corrected my posts over the years 😂


    Best of luck I won’t engage with you any further and I’ll appreciate if you don’t engage with me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,506 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    The transmission grid upgrades across Ireland are happening at pace at the moment across overhead lines, underground cables and uprates of existing sub stations plus many, many additional sub stations at all voltages.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,725 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    After reading the last dozen or so posts, I'm astounded that you would post this without a supporting link, has to be non-paywalled apparently.

    (Don't bother providing a link, I don't actually want one)



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,822 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Best practice is to quote a paragraph from a paywalled article since most people won’t have a sub and not everyone knows ways around this.

    Here are the important quotes from the Indo article:

    “Builders on the metro, who will be drafted in from around the world, could be limited in how much energy they can use during critical times of the day, such as in evenings, when electricity demand surges around meal times and when people arrive home.The ESB stressed that MetroLink would probably have to rely on a “timed” or “flexible” electricity connection during construction, limiting the energy available to builders “to avoid winter peak loads”.

    Limits on electricity capacity also risk delaying the introduction of new energy-efficient Dart services, according to new files released to the Sunday Independent under the Freedom of Information Act. Irish Rail is also seeking to treble the electrification of the Dart network around Dublin.

    There are also concerns about the electrification of bus fleets because of energy capacity issues, minutes from meetings of the Government’s Major Project Governance Oversight Group (MPGOG) show.

    This high-level advisory group of senior civil servants in the Department of Transport monitors and oversees the delivery of major public transport projects. One meeting heard how demand from the transport sector is so great that 16 Luas electricity connection points supporting trams and infrastructure on the Luas green and red lines “are in regular breach of their capacity”.

    Connections on the green line breach their “maximum import capacity”, an agreed-upon upper limit of electricity to be drawn from the grid, by up to 145pc during peak hours. Limits on the red line are breached by up to 48pc at peak times.Supporting new bus infrastructure also “poses significant demand on the electricity network”, the notes say.

    ESB said it was likely that future Dublin Bus projects aimed at supporting new electric fleets would require the timed and limited connections imposed on MetroLink builders unless there are significant enhancements to the energy grid.“One fully electrified depot would have a demand equal to that of Dublin Airport,” MPGOG was told.

    A new substation is also needed to support Dublin Airport expansion plans, while similar infrastructure is required for Dublin Port and areas around it.The ESB told the group that it hopes the delivery of a high-powered transmission line around Dublin — dubbed an “electricity M50” — would eventually support demand from the transport sector. Construction is due to start this year.”



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,506 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Oh I’ve a very good source that this is the case 😉😂



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 412 ✭✭Qaanaaq


    Won't the Celtic Interconnector help deal with these peak spikes during the winter? I guess we are talking about 1700-1900 in winter is the highest usage.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,301 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Ok Strait of Hormuz "difficulties" aside, how can the grid issues delay the construction of major infrastructure like this? Finglas Luas' construction will mostly be done using diesel as the primary energy source. What electricity would be used beyond that used in the site offices for making cups of tea? (ok and maybe a computer or two). I imagine LED lighting for the various sites will consume relatively little power.

    Metrolink will obviously consume more power because all the underground equipment will be powered by electricity I suppose BUT they are currently upgrading the Berlin-Hamburg railway line while one of the local temporary works' sites has a connection to the grid, the other has had a big fat diesel generator running 24/7 since August. Surely we can deploy one or more diesel generators if the grid isn't able to support construction. By the time of opening of course, the grid issues need to be sorted but I cannot accept that the grid could prevent construction starting on any of these projects if we really wanted to make a start on them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,395 ✭✭✭Daith


    The grid stuff is a complete distraction to the more important issue of funding.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,668 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    It's not though - it does impact on when delivery can take place of each of the projects.

    You have to look at both of them together.

    There wasn't a hope of me doing that from a mobile phone.

    Also, it was certainly in the past a complete no-go to quote newspaper articles on these fora (other than providing a link) - if that has changed I'd appreciate some guidance on that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,668 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    It’s the local power supply in the areas concerned that needs upgrading not the national supply.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,668 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    To be clear, I was not referring to the construction when I made reference to the grid.

    I was referring to the ability of the grid to power operations and I was inferring that building something that cannot then start operations for a year or more post-construction were funding to be made available now would influence funding decisions.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,301 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    That still should not prevent construction from starting using diesel generators where necessary. The grid can be upgraded during construction so services can commence when construction is complete.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,668 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Well that is the question I’m posing - can the grid cope that soon?

    My understanding is that it is unlikely to be able to.

    We are dealing with a DPER that is highly sceptical of anything that the NTA is responsible for, courtesy of their current overspending in recent years, and this kind of thing is likely to influcence capital funding decisions as well.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,301 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    If we as a nation can't ensure that there's enough power to start these services in 5 or 10 years we should declare ourselves a failed state and just give up now.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,691 ✭✭✭MayoSalmon


    We have an iceberg economy..propped up by a handful of US Multinationals. 3 companies (Apple, Microsoft, Eli lily) pay almost 50% of all corp tax receipts.

    Because of such we have shambolic infrastructure deficits, housing, rail, healthcare yada yada yada



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,517 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    Er, what? Because we have a large corporation tax windfall we have an infrastructure deficit?

    Whatever the argument was, it’s off topic here, though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,691 ✭✭✭MayoSalmon


    It’s that our fiscal model is unusually concentrated and fragile. That makes sustainable, long-term capital investment more complicated — especially in housing, rail, and health systems that require decades-long funding certainty.

    But most importanly and crucially, the capital investment wasn’t put in place to attract or accommodate that scale of multinational presence in the first place. Housing, transport, energy and public services weren’t expanded in parallel with corporate growth. So the tax base surged without the underlying infrastructure keeping pace…thats how we end up being the only country in Europe where the capital city has no direct rail connection.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,361 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    The windfall taxes should be going all in to infrastructure and wealth funds for the future. This is Ireland though where clientalist short-termism wins.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,517 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    The amount of money coming in is not proportional to the numbers working here. Apple, for instance employs maybe 5x as many people in Cork as it did in 1996, but its Corporation tax is about 100x what it was then. There are also quite a few large Corporation Tax payers with less than a hundred employees, especially in the financial services sector.

    Lots of Corporation tax is not bad, but it is windfall, and my only concern about it is that the government becomes reliant on it for current expenditure. That has not happened so far, though. Even without Corp Tax, the government is very well funded: Income tax and VAT are very healthy.

    No direct rail connection to the airport is also something of a bogus metric; people really really fixate on the airport, but air travel does not generate much car traffic compared to commuting, and what it does generate is outside peak hours. Metro is not being built to serve Dublin Airport. It just happens that the route allowed for a station at DUB with minimal extra cost, so it was done. If Swords wasn’t the northern endpoint of Metro, there’d be no DUB station.

    Dublin is not the only capital in Europe without a rail link to its airport, by the way: Prague has no a rail link to its airport, and it’s an interesting counterpoint, as it shows how low a priority airport links really are. Prague actually has a well-developed Metro, and one that is regularly extended (the city transport division maintains a permanent staff to keep a pipeline of improvement projects in a ready-to-tender state - a lesson for Dublin). To date, however, they’ve extended the nearest Metro line (A) away from the Airport, preferring to serve denser suburbs in the western Motol neighbourhood. The airport’s T3 and T4 will eventually be served by the 20 and 26 tram lines, which are being extended toward it in phases. Longer term, a regional mainline rail station under Prague airport T1/T2 is being planned as part of a bigger project to improve the railway network in Prague’s Northern and Northeastern hinterland.

    I agree 100% with @Kermit.de.frog that these windfalls must be used for capital projects like transport infrastructure, and not used to fill in the gaps in the current budget. The big infrastructure spends will reduce costs in the economy which will reduce upward pressure on wages and pensions (the biggest part of the government's budget).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,691 ✭✭✭MayoSalmon


    Ah here sure neither does Tirana in Albania…I was comparing ourselves to comparable "Western" European Capital Cities not Eastern Ex Soviets Capitals….which to be fair still have rail links.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 213 ✭✭VeryOwl


    There was one of those economic score things out recently that had Ireland as the second richest country in the world according to their metrics, which even factored out the distorted GDP.

    Whatever one may think of that, there's no disputing we are a very rich country with clever people in it. It's not rocket science to build a bloody 2.5 mile tramline and connect it to a grid. Housing plans already in the works.

    It's never been about funding. We have money falling from the sky and our political classes just don't take infrastructure and public investment seriously. We could have the best of everything if we wanted. I hope the people in Finglas kick up a fuss about their public transport being defunded while farmers get bribed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,517 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    Nonsense. Prague has the kind of public transport investment and planning pipeline we could only dream of, and yet they didn't prioritise an airport link. It wasn't even that hard to do, just a bad use of money.

    You picked an irrelevant metric.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 644 ✭✭✭Thunder87


    The airport link is hardly irrelevant and hardly an afterthought of a line to Swords.. it's I would assume the biggest transport hub on the whole island, including for buses, and according to some of the planning projections it's expected it'd be by far the busiest station on the line



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,926 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    I wonder what we'll moan about next after a rail link to the airport is built



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