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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,782 ✭✭✭P.Walnuts


    Crossed wires I think. You replied to me saying Bealham wasnt a poach.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,088 ✭✭✭For Petes Sake


    To go back to the question of whether Keenan walks back into the Irish side - I think we can comfortably say that the answer is yes, although most could have said that a few weeks ago.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 43,034 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    I don't remember anybody saying he wouldn't walk back into the 15 shirt. What I seen, and myself included, were people worried that he mightn't be the same after being out for so long. Thankfully he is back to his best immediately which is a relief to all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,136 ✭✭✭50HX


    Didnt think you'd wait til full time in Aviva to post that😁



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,062 ✭✭✭johnh6767


    is there an Ireland XV squad travelling over summer ? Thought I read something but can’t find anything that references it



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,018 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    I don't recall hearing anything about that.

    Pity the Churchill Cup doesn't exist anymore.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 5,476 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    churchill cup is gone 15 years or so at this stage and we've had a few incarnations of other A tournaments and games since then. the new nations championship means you wont have too much other games on as theres two tiers in that and Georgia, USA etc are all competing in that



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,791 ✭✭✭ersatz


    Has that been superseded by the Emerging Ireland tours? Those have helped as far as I can see. Better development model too, with a series of matches and a longer camp.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 43,034 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    I'm a bit confused by the responses to your question.

    We have a summer tour where we play Australia, Japan and New Zealand.

    Is that what you wanted to know?

    Australia 4th July, Japan 11th both in Australia and then New Zealand in Eden Park on the 18th.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 5,476 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    No hes wondering about a second tier squad. An ireland a kind of squad.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,062 ✭✭✭johnh6767


    Sorry Yes ‘Ireland A’ (now ‘Ireland XV’) I must have got it mixed up



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,405 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,022 ✭✭✭Ben Bailey




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,351 ✭✭✭Brief_Lives


    Australia has close to zero stocks of Jet fuel at the moment.

    It will be a locals only match I reckon.

    I'll be watching from the costa del sofa.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,405 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    Ireland might not be able to travel if europe runs out



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,129 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    It won't run out though. It just won't be enough to run the full schedule schedule of flights we currently run. Supply and demand will mean prices go up until demand goes down to meet the level of fuel for a reduced number of flights.

    It might cost a fortune to get there, or might be rescheduled.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,038 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    One from the Leinster thread but I thought more pertinent here.

    [Crowley] is bang average and the only other 6 nations side he'd start for is Wales.

    I've seen this mentioned a few times tbh, and I don't think it really stacks up, or is quite the put-down it looks on the surface.

    He'd defintely start for Wales. Personally, I'd have him ahead of Garbisi who is a player I rate very highly. He had a better 6 Nations this year than any of the English 10's. Finn Russell was the Lions starting 10 so that's hardly damning, and Jalibert has been one of the best players in Europe this season.

    Personally, I think if the Lions was taking place this Summer, he'd be in pole position for the 22 shirt.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,062 ✭✭✭johnh6767


    Crowley is the most underrated 10 in NH it’s just he’s only coming good now and had a lot of back noise to contend with . If he can crack consistency he is absolutely 22 nailed on



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 43,034 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Crowley is average, he can have good days but that's not very often.

    That doesn't mean he's not the best Irish 10 although I'd like to see Byrne get a shot.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,038 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    I think this 6N's campaign has been his most encouraging set of Ireland performances. His Scotland, England and cameo performance against Italy were all very encouraging. His place kicking (like vs Wales) is still his biggest issue, and while his kicking from hand can be really good, he seems to have a habit of throwing in one stinker as well.

    Also, the things he was previously criticised for - not putting shape on the attack, being that linking 10 - are things we certainly saw from him this 6 Nations.

    He only turned 26 in January, which is sometimes forgotten because of just how young Prendergast is by comparison, but think back to where Johnny Sexton was when he was 25/26.

    I'm not saying I expect him to get anywhere near Sexton's level, but I think we can reasonably expect some more consistency now as he begins to enter his peak years.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,598 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    Yeah, I broadly agree with all of this, especially this part:

    Also, the things he was previously criticised for - not putting shape on the attack, being that linking 10 - are things we certainly saw from him this 6 Nations.

    At times I see him play for Munster and would be critical of him for occasionally trying to do too much, but he pared back some of those instincts in the 6 Nations and he and the whole backline flourished as a result IMO.

    Incidentally - I think Harry Byrne in recent weeks and Sam Prendergast against Ulster have done the same and looked better doing that in recent weeks - simplifying what they're trying to do, not trying to do too much or force things, and the team has looked better for it.

    There are lots of intangibles I love about Jack Crowley as a player. He didn't have a good day against Exeter in Europe, especially in the first half, but the fight he showed and the individual flair and strength for the two tries he scored as part of the fightback speaks volumes to his character.

    I hadn't really considered the prospect of what a squad would look like if there was a Lions tour this summer, but think it's probably a fair comment that he'd be a really strong contender for the 22 shirt right now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,139 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    We need to see more of Crowley to really know what we have on our hands.

    His form this season - like last - has swung wildly up and down. On balance, he's neither as good nor as bad as he's sometimes made out here. He finished the season as our best 10, but equally he started it with some performances that justified his dropping.

    Bigger sample size = better info, basically.

    If his inconsistency continues, someone will come along and displace him, sooner or later.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,038 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    An alternative - altogether more positive - way of framing the exact same argument is to say if he improves his consistency, as you would expect from a player who turned 26 in January, then we have a very good 10 on our hands for the foreseeable number of years.

    Post edited by aloooof on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,038 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    I’d broadly agree with all of that FTD.

    I think Farrell has an interesting selection decision to make coming up, especially in the Japan game.

    Does he give a start to Harry or Sam. There’s a reasonable argument for either. And then there’s the case for Frawley at 22.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,354 ✭✭✭TRC10


    I think Farrell has an interesting selection decision to make coming up, especially in the Japan game

    For the NZ and Australia games, I don’t think he does to be honest. Crowley is the clear choice at 10, and it’s not particularly close. The Japan game he’ll probably rotate a bit for. I personally think Harry Byrne has earned a start in that game.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,908 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Don't think the gap between Crowley and Bryne is significant at all. Whatever playmaking advantage Crowley has is balanced against Bryne's superior kicking and passing imo. I'd have Crowley ahead, but not by much currently.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 34,129 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Lot of rugby to be played yet.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,894 ✭✭✭leakyboots


    Is Byrne's passing that much better than Crowley? I wouldn't have thought so.

    The fact that Frawley got the nod on the bench said a lot. If he goes well early doors with Lancaster (who has a brilliant track record of improving players) he might well be our bench 10. Added bonus of cover elsewhere (12/15) in a pinch.

    But, lots of rugby to be played still as Podge said



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,598 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    No, well of course you wouldn’t have thought so, but you’re hardly a neutral in that debate?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,038 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    you’re hardly a neutral in that debate?

    This seems fairly facile. Nobody is neutral.

    I'm with leaky, it's not at all clear to be that Harry Byrne's passing is superior to Crowley's; I'd rate Crowley's passing and offloading as one of the strength's to his game.

    Also, it doesn't overtly appear that Farrell is a massive fan. I think his last full cap was in 2021?

    I think TRC's summary above is broadly correct, Crowley is now the incumbent 10, and seems to have widen the gap from the others, and the closer calls are now for the start in the Japan game or the 22 jersey. That of course can all change, but I think it's as large as gap as we've seen since Crowley came on the scene.



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