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Has urban Ireland finally a voice?

  • 24-04-2026 12:34PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 11,718 ✭✭✭✭


    Leo Varadkar, someone who’s held the highest office in the country and undoubtedly has insights the rest of us don’t, pointed out.. horror of horrors!! That urban Ireland supports rural Ireland, as happens in most countries.
    It’s not exactly a radical statement, it's normally how modern economies work. Cities generate the bulk of economic activity and tax revenue, and that inevitably feeds into wider national spending.

    But judging by some of the articles and reactions since, it’s an uncomfortable truth that people don’t particularly want to engage with, instead, the truth is pushed back on, dismissed, or argued against.



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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,930 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Let them have their voice and see how long it lasts without rural ireland.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,819 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Given most of our food is imported, I'd say it would last pretty long!

    Beef and lamb are cash crops essentially - grown for export markets as the path of least resistance for farmers. If 50% of beef farmers stopped overnight, the country wouldnt notice the slightest bit of difference. Well, nobody except the beef baron



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 11,718 ✭✭✭✭John_Rambo


    I don't think any part of Ireland needs your permission to have a voice! But thanks for "letting" them. Survival rates will be pretty good you'll find!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,987 ✭✭✭yagan


    I remember when he said he could probably do with eating less meat as he got older the meat sector went into meltdown about it. This is a lad who trained as a doctor who understands human metabolism changes over time yet the beef farmers took medical fact as a personal attack.

    Leo had plenty of faults, his constant tweetting was a headache for his colleagues to defend and second guess, but he certainly was the least likely to suck up to the land mafia.

    However if I'm not wrong the Dublin urban sprawl provides the highest income receipts, but the larger part of CTA receipts come from products exported from the Cork harbour biomed/pharma space.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 11,718 ✭✭✭✭John_Rambo


    Yeah, urban Cork is a heavy hitter in its own right. Between the city, the harbour, and the wider industrial base, it punches well above its weight in terms of output and exports.



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  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 12,672 Mod ✭✭✭✭artanevilla


    Why does it have to be Urban Ireland versus Rural Ireland?

    Can we not just be Ireland?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,381 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    the farmers rowing in with the likes of Duffy/Geoghagen and having their strike stunt has meant their standing has took one hell of a beating.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,016 ✭✭✭OscarMIlde


    I'd agree. The narrative from the fuel protests about an urban elite were ridiculous and divisive and I equally find it ridiculous and divisive to judge people's worth based on exchequer contributions.

    I understand were Leo was coming from, as his comment was a reaction to the fuel protests narrative that urban Ireland was somehow not real Ireland, but the media doesn't need to indulge in click bait flamewars about it.

    Cohesion in all western countries is being damaged by bots and agendas online, mainstream publications (like the journal fact.check article) don't need to add fuel to the fire.

    “Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.”


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,355 ✭✭✭HBC08


    If Leo Varadkar is your voice then youre fairly fooked.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 11,718 ✭✭✭✭John_Rambo


    Yeah. Overweight private business owners with questionable backgrounds blockading cities and towns did themselves no favours. While they enjoyed plenty of support on Facebook and TikTok, the reality on the ground was very different. That sense of superiority and casual snobbery towards urban communities wore thin quickly. People don’t take kindly to their cities being disrupted and held to ransom, and it created an atmosphere that was uncomfortable, tense, and ultimately counterproductive, particularly when they abused certain people trying to get their work done.

    I don’t think so. He’s accomplished and articulate.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,987 ✭✭✭yagan


    Yes, I should have stated that that biomed/pharma nexus in Cork harbour is an urban rather than a rural development.

    Ireland's inland infrastructure was so underdeveloped that it was easier to just bulk buy farm land all around the harbour for industrial zoning and simply ship in the factories. Now Lieber builds parts for massive port cranes in Kerry, ships them from Fenit to Rushbrooke in Cobh for final assembly before being exported.

    It was interesting to read some of the Census 1926 highlights, like 51% of workers worked in an agri setting, compared to only 4% a century later. Two decades ago I used to have to call to a lot of farms in a previous job and the average holder would be late 50s or older, their successor will be living in the local town, or abroad with little or zero interest in taking on the holding that would fall over without subsidies. A lot of land would be rented out to one local big farmer who'd was consolidating the business with newer practices and technology.

    I think the national idea of what is rural Ireland is can be extremely varied now compared to the black and white, urban/rural divide of the past. But the notion that rural Ireland is real/true/authentic Ireland seems as legitimate as your average yank romance flick showing boreens as national routes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,448 ✭✭✭Montage of Feck


    This kind of nonsense is how Victor Orban got in, just live and let live.

    🙈🙉🙊



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,043 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    Dublin itself generates more PAYE income tax than the rest of the country combined.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,987 ✭✭✭yagan


    Some farmers think they are Ireland, or at least judging by some of the verbiage of the recent attempt to hijack the state.

    They'll never be let protest with tractors inside the M50 again after that stunt.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 56,288 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    IIRC only six counties in ireland are 'in the black', though it was probably ten or fifteen years ago i read that.

    not that that makes much difference, i don't pay my taxes expecting it's all going to be spent back on me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 11,718 ✭✭✭✭John_Rambo


    I’d say they probably believed targeting the city would amplify their cause and force attention onto it. But in terms of the rhetoric, it’s hard to see where the sense of superiority comes from or why they position themselves as somehow above urban communities. The abuse dolled out wasn't justified.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,043 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    We import most of the food we eat.

    We export most of the food we produce.

    The irish tax payer pays subsidies for the exported food they will never eat and will pay twice in the long game due to climate change fines incurred from our exported food production.

    We need to find ways of helping rural ireland diversify employment so that it is not dependent on subsidised working practice.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,043 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    I agree that Dublin should provide supports to other counties.

    Ive no problen with that but I would like to see a bit more of the cash generated in Dublin invested in Dublin.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 11,718 ✭✭✭✭John_Rambo


    Agreed. It’s a strange contradiction. People will visit Dublin, call it unsafe or run down, and when anyone proposes the kind of infrastructure and investment that would actually address those issues the usual parish pump politicians start roaring and shouting.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 7,422 ✭✭✭Badly Drunk Boy


    Dublin generates more PAYE income tax but that it partly because wages are usually a lot higher in Dublin than elsewhere. But their taxes fund a lot of stuff rurally. But infrastructure and facilites are better in Dublin. Lots of swings and roundabouts.

    Still, it's silly to be causing a divide over this, from either side.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,944 ✭✭✭emaherx


    Their Accountants would probably notice, advisors, hauliers, port staff, manufacturers and suppliers of agricultural equipment, meat factory workers, co-op workers, many other workers across the country in rural and urban jobs would probably notice to some extent.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,944 ✭✭✭emaherx


    Actually the Irish tax payer does not pay most of the subsidies, as the bulk comes from EU funds. Much of the foods that are imported here from elsewhere in Europe were also subsidised by those same funds. Food imported from outside the EU was likely subsidised in the countries of origin also.

    Agriculture overall does not cost the economy as it contributes far more back than it receives. Many jobs far beyond the farm gate in both rural and urban Ireland benefit from agriculture through support services.

    Like others said above, it shouldn't be an Urban V Rural argument all of the time, neither will thrieve without the other.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,835 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    And then he rolled back on it. He hadn't got the courage of his own convictions.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,201 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    I just wish they'd differentiate between Rural Ireland and Farming Ireland. The local rural school here has less than 1 family in 20 involved in farming. The remainder are from PAYE or Business families.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,678 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    There is so much going on with a variety of interrelated social, cultural and economic issues that I think you could write a PhD thesis on the relationship rural Ireland has with urban areas, particularly Dublin. I mean there has long been a refrain that "rural Ireland is dying" but that's not supported by the evidence, population is growing and wealth is increasing. What's actually happening is that rural Ireland is changing and a significant portion of people in these areas do not like these changes. These changes include the nature of work and industry, particularly the loss of physical work, the consolidation of farms and the lack of new farmers as well as major demographic shifts from inward migration have resulted in established culture under pressure. Fuel prices were just the spark for these protests, but you didn't have to scratch too deeply to see that there was a broader dissatisfaction with the direction the country is going in.

    I don't know how this can be fixed. The pressures that are being pushed against are irresistible from the perspective of a small country, particularly one that has become dependent on existing system persisting. Small farms are not going to become profitable again, peat fired power stations are not going to reopen and migration won't stop if we've become dependent on that labour. Urban areas are not going to change their approach to governance because rural people don't like the changes they tolerate and/or benefit from.

    Varadkers commentary doesn't help but ultimately it is just a passing remark that will not leave a lasting effect. Said or unsaid there is a problem here our political system has known about for a long time but it has chosen to ignore, then denounce. It needs to be addressed, but how that's done is anyone's guess.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,678 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    Ireland pays more into the EU budget than it receives. Ireland could in theory stop paying the EU and redirect the money to farmers directly.

    Of course such action would collapse the economy, leaving no money for such subsidy, but theoretically it is possible.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,043 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    Its still the irish tax payer that foots the bill.

    The irish taxpayer contributes about 3 billion to the EU each year and only gets back about 2.2 billion.

    70% of the 2.2 billion is subsidies for agri and rural supports.

    Agri is not contributing 70% of the 3 billion.

    I agree we shouldnt create an urban rural divide and farms should receive subsidies to produce food security, but that doesnt mean we should over subsidise over production.

    90% of our beef is exported. It isnt an efficient use of tax payers money to subsidise that over production and then to top it off, we get fined by the EU for not hitting climate targets because we over produced beef..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 11,718 ✭✭✭✭John_Rambo


    Not really though. He actually apologised for the blunt tone and for upsetting triggered people. At the same time, he said he stands over a number of the points he made. He also highlighted that a large share of tax revenue is generated in urban Ireland, and that roughly 80% of the food consumed here is now imported.

    I think Varadkars comments helps. It's about time people hear the truth, as uncomfortable as it is.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 56,288 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i've seen this sentiment expressed several times on other social media sites. saoirse mchugh (and i know she'd probably not be that popular here) is especially exercised by it.

    i've seen comments that some rural people were afraid to express opposition to the blockades for fear of being 'othered'.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,819 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    I agree with you except for

    >>Small farms are not going to become profitable again

    Small beef or lamb maybe, but small scale organics - salad & veg, is profitable. It doesnt scale well as its labour intensive but it does pay for a smallholding.

    People are willing to pay a premium for locally grown organic fruit & veg. But farmers in their 50s and 60s are not going to pivot to something so labour intensive.



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