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Fuel Protest (Read MOD NOTE on first post)

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,899 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    I don't know who he is and of course I don't agree with support of the blockaders.

    I was just sharing a little bit of social history from long ago.

    Different times.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 61,101 ✭✭✭✭walshb




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,614 ✭✭✭JohnDoe2025


    Did any of those parties propose amendments to the Acts when they were before the Dail to achieve those aims? The answer is no. The Dail is the legislature where all parties can put their proposals forward.

    I have no love for this government but I have seen very little, actually less than very little, from the opposition benches worth voting for. Their charade this week and last giving comfort to the "protestors" has ended any chance of changing my mind. There might be something in an election manifesto worth thinking about, but can't see it myself given the calibre they have.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 25,000 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    I've been thinking about this quite a lot for the past few days. It feels like most of these recent populist movements (water protests, anti-immigration movements, the road blockades) all boil down to the same principle: an anti-taxation movement.

    Governments can be inefficient and because of the large sums involved in public finances, it's attention grabbing when mistakes like the children's hospital, the bike sheds, printers etc. happen. People seem to forget that private sector organisations can waste money too: the sums wasted by Mark Zuckerburg on The Metaverse, or by Elon Musk on The Boring Company would make any government wince.

    Nobody enjoys seeing tax deductions on their payslip, cutting cheques to revenue or handing over money for road tax, property tax etc but it seems to me that society seems to have forgotten that this taxation is necessary to provide the services we expect government to provide in civilised society (construction and maintenance of the road network and public transport infrastructure, schools, public transport, a national grid, water services, healthcare etc. etc. etc.)

    Of course, when we look at this globally, it's quite obvious that Trump was elected because he promised enormous tax breaks to the ultra wealthy who, in turn, weaponised the media empires (both social and traditional) they control to lobby on his behalf. We can see this locally too: we massively under-tax capital gains and profit by comparison to the taxation we apply to wages, half our economy is based on being a tax haven for MNCs.

    The wealthy benefit most from low taxation on profits generated from capital rather than taxation on income and so, of course the wealthiest in our society (those that own the social media platforms people are getting their "news" from and the newsprint media where we read about the sports teams that same group of oligarchs own) are going to promote content that rails against taxation and points towards various minority groups as the cause (LGBTQ+, Immigrants etc.): because if we, the great unwashed, can be convinced that taxation is theft and that society is falling apart because of "woke" socially progressive politics or immigrants instead of underfunded public services, we can be convinced to vote for the populists they put on our ballot papers: those that promise tax cuts and spending increases, that rail against progressive societal changes and stoke hatred of various minority groups (again, helped by the social media they own promoting this in our algorithms). Those same populist that then turn around and impose austerity measures on the public sector, hike income taxes and ratchet up public debt in order to fund tax cuts that are heavily weighted towards their oligarch backers while siphoning off as much public money as they can to their families, friends, financial backers and their own offshore (or crypto) accounts.

    It's not an easy thing to fight against. Americans (who have a virtual stranglehold on social and entertainment media) have almost all already swallowed the lies hook, line and sinker and are quick to tell you that the centre right politicians of their Democratic party are left wing (the right wing among them appending this with "extremists" or "communists") and have managed to turn the word "socialist" into an insult. They've so consistently voted against their own best interests that a healtcare crisis in your 50s can leave you destitute even after having lived a relatively successful life until that point.

    The social contract of the 20th century (Go to school, work hard, pay your taxes and you can buy your own home, educate your children, be treated by a doctor when you're sick, maybe have a holiday every now and then, retire in your mid sixties etc.) has been broken and these "protestors" are a symptom of that: they feel hard done by global fuel price increases despite all evidence showing that they actually pay quite low prices for their diesel when compared to European averages, they've been radicalised online and no longer trust their own represenative groups such as the IFA or the Road Hauliers Association.

    Political arties of the left need to find a way to convince these people that, despite the fact they're independent businessmen and entrepeneurs, they have far, far more in common with ordinary PAYE workers than they do with the oligarchs and that any social contract requires fair and equitable taxation. Globally, we need to start forcing the ultra wealthy to pay their share and, to do that, we need to work together. We need a world with lots of millionaires, not one with 3000 billionaires and a handful of parasites nearing the trillionaire mark.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,614 ✭✭✭JohnDoe2025


    Except these protestors don't have anything in common with ordinary PAYE workers. One of them owes half a million in tax to Revenue, more than an ordinary retail worker on a 30 hour contract would earn in 20 years before tax!

    These protestors are all former FF voters, true gombeen men who run cash businesses in rural areas, live in one-off houses subsidised by the ordinary urban workers and dump their used vehicles in fields. What we actually need is a party that will stand up and insist that the taxes paid in cities like Dublin, Cork, Galway, Limerick, Waterford and others is actually spent on the ordinary people living in those cities on public transport, facilities, sports etc. and not spent on two-teacher schools on every crossroad, broadband to every boreen and hospitals everywhere.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,472 ✭✭✭Mefistofelino


    Probably more a case of "Come up here to Dublin so we can keep an eye on ye while our farms are empty"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,529 ✭✭✭aidanodr


    Similar theme on LIVELINE today. With School bus drivers and the like on - all saying they are closing or will be closing there businesses. Same thing thats crippling there business - COST OF DIESEL. I heard it mentioned on this show that this 10c (??) reduction via government that will be taken off cost of fuel IS ALREADY GONE with price rises that are happening in the meantime.

    Issue is, as long as the US are at war with Iran and the strait of hormuz is closed, these prices will not settle down, they will keep rising? The governments cannot keep subsidizing this unfortunately. Listening to economists here and other in financials - this €750m our gov has spent on this already is far more than expected and more than others, but, again on likes of Liveline the callers are not satisfied, they want alot more than 10c 20c taken off diesel, some want the gov ( the taxpayer ) to CAP the price of diesel at €1 - the rest paid by the gov/tax payer for as long as necessary.

    My view - the government literally throwing money at the cost of fuel whose price is completely unstable and rising all the time is unsustainable.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 25,000 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    I'd say it's a safe bet that most of those that turned out for the blockades aren't in the same bracket as that fella. I saw quite a lot of the blockades during the 5 hours it took me each way to Carrigaline this weekend and most looked like ordinary enough lads.

    I'd actually agree that rural dwellers get far more than their fair share of public expenditure but some of that is a necessary cost of our country having good food security. That planning has allowed ribbon developments of McMansions for people who have often have no connection to agriculture beyond the fact their grandfather farmed the acre they live on is a scandal though and they have no right to demand increased rural services when they have no intention of paying for them.

    That said, most of the protestors have far more in common with the average PAYE worker than the likes of the Collisons, Denis O' Brien, Dermot Desmonds and the like.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 35,677 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Ordinary lads who work cash in hand 4 day weeks and throw on the odd nixers of a weekend.

    Let's grow up a bit here about who was on the barriers. There's none of these boyos short of a holiday. Most of the lads out there dabble in Motorsport and have 5 cars sitting around their gardens in varying degrees of project status.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 716 ✭✭✭Marcos


    Water cannons have been banned in Britain, excluding N.I. since 2015 because of the risk of injury, especially to eyes and they sunder the consensual relationship between citizens and the police.

    If those water cannons are around in bigger numbers would you be happy to see them used against pro Palestinian protestors, PBP etc, or is it just for those that you don't like?

    When most of us say "social justice" we mean equality under the law opposition to prejudice, discrimination and equal opportunities for all. When Social Justice Activists say "social justice" they mean an emphasis on group identity over the rights of the individual, a rejection of social liberalism, and the assumption that unequal outcomes are always evidence of structural inequalities.

    Andrew Doyle, The New Puritans.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,632 ✭✭✭Yeah Right


    A reasonable assumption, seeing as you rushed to the defence of the 'protestors' while lambasting 'polite society' at the same time.

    Posters on here were foaming at the mouth all weekend calling protesters stupid and knuckle draggers.

    1. How do you know these posters don't also work with their hands? Why do you automatically assume its because they're manual workers? Seems I'm not alone in jumping to conclusions
    2. Calling them stupid and/or knuckle draggers doesn't mean they were calling EVERYONE who does manual labour stupid and/or knuckle draggers, like you claimed they were. A lot of the leaders that were front and centre fit the bill perfectly.
    3. You have yet to point out a single instance of hypocrisy by anyone, while we're at it. How are they hypocrites?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,945 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    I do recall the opposition saying the planning bill took years but then was rushed out before the election.

    A quick Google

    Planning and Development Bill 2023: From the Seanad – Dáil Éireann (33rd Dáil) – Wednesday, 9 Oct 2024 – Houses of the Oireachtas

    Bacik: I know others have already spoken in general about the process. Indeed I spoke about it this morning. It is really concerning to see that we have only three hours to debate 177 pages (of amendments). I am just looking at the groupings we have been given. Even if we just look at the groupings, we can see 31 groupings of amendments and we are still only on the first grouping 45 minutes into what is only a three-hour guillotined debate.

    Pringle: The reason planning applications end up in court is that there is a legal problem with the implementation by An Bord Pleanála, the council and so on because the judicial review is actually a review of the legality of the case and the procedures used and not on the decision itself. Therefore, if the planning Act was sufficiently robust and An Bord Pleanála and the county councils applied the law as it stands, then there would be no need for judicial reviews. That is the problem we see across the board. It is a failure on the Minister’s part and on that of his Department that this is being rushed through on this Stage without any proper debate.

    It was Eoin O'Broin who originally highlighted the problem of judicial reviews following an FOI.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth house?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,049 ✭✭✭StrawbsM


    MHR resigning from government



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,862 ✭✭✭rolling boh


    Didn't expect that ,must have been hot for him in Kerry .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,337 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Soc Dems TD calls Justice Minister 'GI Jim O'Callaghan' over protest response

    Social Democrats deputy leader Cian O'Callaghan has accused ministers of choosing not to pursue a strategy of de-escalation to fuel protests and instead choosing to "fan the flames".

    In particular, he dubbed the Minister for Justice "GI Jim O'Callaghan" and compared the Fianna Fáil TD to "Rambo".

    😂



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,337 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    the Taoiseach and Tánaiste have now left the chamber with the confidence debate ongoing, saying it is "proof positive that not only will they not listen to the people, but they will not listen to TDs in this House."

    #optics



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,529 ✭✭✭aidanodr


    So ( eventual ) Collapse of government perhaps and Sinn fein etc take the top seat? If that were to happen what would they do different from whats being done now? Endlessly pour money into subsidizing fuel costs for businesses, cap the price of diesel? Bankrupt the country in that process?

    The 2 Healy Rays gone from gov I think

    These protests went beyond cost of living, now into bring the government down, cause chaos?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,606 ✭✭✭✭kneemos




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,945 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Patrick O'Donovan put back in his box re media coverage.

    No need for 'formal review' of protests coverage - Harris

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth house?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,702 ✭✭✭✭rob316


    Holy ****, its actually going to collapse so or at the very least Martin is gone



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,945 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    I did not see that coming. Ministerial pension gone. How will he survive?

    Martin was so desperate to become Taoiseach that he relied on the Healy Raes. Bananas.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth house?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 7,887 ✭✭✭Allinall


    Not sure where you're getting that from?

    They still have a majority of 5



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,021 ✭✭✭almostover


    Must have got a big backlash in Kerry over last week's events. I'll hold my hand up and say I got this one wrong. Didn't think the Healy-Rae bros would walk away from government.

    Interesting to see if the government can hang on long-term now. This is a fairly big blow.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,285 ✭✭✭Glenomra


    The Healy Raes know how the wind is blowing. The majority of posters on Boards, as to be expected on this site, berate the protesters. Not the majority of Irish people. This episode is a debacle caused by an inept, complacent, arrogant government. We all know that the Middle Eastern war caused the spike in fuel prices but the failure of the government to pre-empt this disaster was an abject performance imo.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,945 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Well Michael Lowry will never ever vote against Fine Gael so at least they have that corrupt chancer.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth house?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,284 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    I dont get it, if you dont like boards why do you post here,? Reddit was the same do you post there also? There is clearly a divide in the views of the protest in the country.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,021 ✭✭✭almostover


    In fairness, unless the government could read the minds of Trump and Netanyahu, I don't see how they could have pre-empted the current crisis.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,021 ✭✭✭almostover


    He is grassroots FG as they say and a former FG minister. He'd be in the party still only for his own corruption. What else would you expect him to do?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,452 ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    How is the Irish government, or any government for that matter, supposed to pre-empt these things when Trump has the mental capacity of nasty goldfish?

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,049 ✭✭✭StrawbsM


    I never thought I’d be nodding in agreement so much with the opposition seats in the dail. FF/FG have berated their true voters in rural Ireland and even if they get past today I doubt this episode in Irish politics will be forgotten.



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