The Kerry Babies Case

Once again, you are just proving my point which I repeat:

Everyone accepted that Joanne Hayes was not the mother of Baby John, even the last holdout, Gerry O'Carroll, who eventually accepted this fact after the exhumation of Baby John which he had requested.

(I never suggested the exhumation was his doing, simply that he had publicly and repeatedly asked for it to be done)

https://www.crimeworld.com/ireland/kerry-babies-retired-garda-accepts-joanne-hayes-was-not-mum-of-baby-john/a/103365945.html

But you, Seth and others have convinced me on one thing - I'm wasting my time here because the truth is very unwelcome.

Anyone who actually wants to know the truth about the Kerry Babies should look at the online archive of Magill, Vincent Browne's magazine which campaigned for a Public Inquiry and repeatedly attacked its Report. Mr. Justice Kevin Lynch responded at length to their criticisms and stood over every aspect of his Report. Magill's response to Mr Justice Lynch was a classic of shifting goal-posts, straw men, burden of proof issues and watered down criticisms of the Garda interrogations. If you haven't read Magill on the Tribunal, you know nothing worth saying here.

Of course you won't find the Mr. Justice Kevin Lynch's Report anywhere now because all extant copies have been destroyed for fear anyone would question the bogus and shameful High Court Declaration which quashed the Report without hearing any evidence but only after its author was safely dead and buried. I kept a copy but I won't bother sharing it here.

@Caquas I'm finding it quite difficult to even understand the bush that you're beating around. If I may I'll post a couple of points here, and relevant information:

1. The Hayes family received a substantial payout, even though they may have had some culpability in the botching of the investigation. You have an issue with the amount of payout I believe. The value is somewhat arbitrary at this point.
2. J Hayes admitted during questioning that she had choked her baby, but then later retracted this saying the gardai coerced her. The pathologist said he could not find a cause of death. Perhaps you think she should have still been prosecuted? Seems like there would be no case to be had imo.
3. The rest of the Hayes family have never really explained what happened either, albeit they are entitled to their privacy if no crime was committed (aside from the burial, which I think is not in the public interest if the baby was stillborn imo.)
4. EDIT: Also the two-year old baby, I don't know what that has to do with anything other than to say that she was a capable mother, and adding another child just adds to the theory that the baby was not murdered.

I still think the book should be closed on J Hayes and we should move on, there's a stalemate as the gardai are not going to do any further investigation to themselves or the family. Both would be required to get to the truth.

Don't strain yourself shifting the goal-posts again

Read even a single page and know you are full of it

Bye-by

Seems to be more discussion on this thread about the Hayes family than those connected with Baby John.

Someone actually interested in the truth? You've come to a wrong place.

I posted that page of the Report just to show up @Chooseusername who accused me of BS.

Does it make any difference that all the Hayes family lied to the Gardai from the start? And that the Gardai knew they were lying? No one can dispute that.

Does it matter that Joanne Hayes' aunt, a retired nurse, gave sworn evidence to the Tribunal that she assisted Joanne when she gave birth to a live baby boy?

Don't bother your head with any of that - the decision has been made by the High Court to quash the inconvenient Tribunal Report and the compo has been paid so the national myths must be preserved.

All that remains now is to exculpate the parents of Baby John. Mental gymnastics are needed there but our media have shown in this matter that they are well capable of turning the facts on their heads. And it could be the cheapest way out because who else will pay for that loudmouth solicitor?

You, and most people today, think that JH gave birth alone in a field because it is the version which the media want you to believe, although even Magill (Gene Kerrigan), the most persistent and forensic critics of the Tribunal, abandoned this claim which JH had made to protect her family after the Gardai exposed her initial lies. Her aunt, who was there that night, gave sworn evidence to the Tribunal describing vividly how she assisted JH to give birth in the family home to a live baby boy. And that's what the Tribunal concluded based on the totality of evidence.

And you probably imagine she buried her baby in the field. Read Magill if you don't have the Tribunal Report.

For the umpteenth time, no one in the Hayes family had anything to do with Baby John. The Tribunal explained why they falsely confessed to Baby John's murder but no one here wants to know because they prefer to believe that Joanne Hayes and her two brothers confessed to murder under "coercion" although no one has ever made a credible claim of physical abuse by the Gardai involved in this case, especially not when handing over Millions of Euro to the family. Those that made such false claims paid a heavy price.

Some posters here even say people will confess to the savage murder of a total stranger if a Garda looks sideways at them. As if that would not undermine our entire legal system🤪

Now that they have run out of counter-arguments and I've exposed their nonsense, posters here just want to shut down the discussion (hey, it's Boards!) and treat me as a pariah by claiming that the only issue now is Baby John. As if every media story about Baby John doesn't revert immediately to the Tribunal and the Hayes family. And as if the Hayes family and the media didn't run a campaign for over 40 years to re-write the history and get massive compo without public debate.

So is baby John buried in the same cemetery as his Grandparents on his mother's side? If I got the facts right,if anyone knows?

On the contrary, the Hayes situation was settled 40 years ago but then upended five years ago on spurious grounds.

A full-blown Tribunal of Inquiry headed by a High Court Judge heard evidence from 109 witnesses who were asked over 61,000 questions. That Tribunal Report was accepted by the Government while the Opposition focussed on the Report's detailed criticism of the many failings in the Garda investigation. The Hayes family, their lawyers and the media ran a campaign against the Report's findings and, once the Judge was dead and buried, they got the High Court to issue a bogus and baseless Declaration that the Report was invalid.

Now the media, those tireless and undaunted champions of the truth, take this new narrative as gospel while the Hayes family are living quietly with their millions. Posters here want to shut down discussion because they have gullibly swallowed the re-written history.

Baby John is a tricky problem for a lot of vested interests but, rest assured, the same methods will be used to ensure that no one will be held to account for his brutal murder and, ideally, that the lawyers will have a day out at our expense.

The media shamelessly give free rein to the solicitor representing Baby John's parents. He is full of complaints about their arrest and questioning, without a scintilla of regret for their murdered baby. And no one asks him the only question that matters - what happened your clients' baby? A decent, self-respecting media would run his comments under a photo of Baby John's Headstone with a headline

"Parents' Solicitor Refuses To Talk About Kerry Baby's Murder"

And no, the Hayes family will not be charged with anything because - as the Tribunal Report established 40 years ago - they had nothing to do with Baby John.