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Can I get a HLI value, from a BER cert that was done in 2019?

  • 29-03-2026 04:06PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 643 ✭✭✭


    The office is local but the cert didn't include a HLI value.

    Instead of getting an assessment, could they simply inspect the BER analysis they did in 2019 and extract the relevant HLI from that?



Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 643 ✭✭✭GalaxyRyder


    The BER advice report says, "some of this could use improvement", in relation to walls, windows, doors, ceiling and flooring.

    At no point anywhere is it specified which parts require an upgrade.

    It didn't include the HLI as above, and was done in 2019.

    When I contacted the office who did it, they said for a HLI they'd do an inspection which would cost almost 500 beans.

    Did I get shafted with their original BER report, or are BER reports in general intentionally this vague?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 141 ✭✭picorette


    SEAI advice that I was given was that if you obtain a copy of the Dwelling Report from them, that will show the Heat loss Indicator ( HLI ) that you require.

    You can obtain this by emailing the BER Helpdesk at info@ber.seai.ie


    They will require you to provide a copy of a recent utility bill, with your MPRN.


    Hope that is of use



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 643 ✭✭✭GalaxyRyder


    I got that dwelling report from the SEAI office.

    Screenshot 2026-04-08 180904.png

    Screenshot 2026-04-08 180914.png

    Does this indicate the HLI is actually 1.40?

    Which would mean I'm already setup for heatpump installation?



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,403 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Do you live in a mid level apartment?

    Because there is no way a regular house has only 2.8 sq m of floor and roof area?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 643 ✭✭✭GalaxyRyder




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  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,403 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 643 ✭✭✭GalaxyRyder


    I meant to say, that floor and roof area applies only to a protrusion on the very front.

    That particular floor and ceiling area is exposed to the outside, where all other floor and ceiling areas are sandwiched.

    Why are building contractors asking me for a specialised HLI inspection, if it's already established?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 643 ✭✭✭GalaxyRyder


    I spoke with another assessor who mentioned that HLI might be misleading?

    My concern is a heat pump could go in, then it would work full time to heat the place due to an insufficient insulation envelop and end up cranking my electric bill up instead of down.

    The main area according to that report that needs attention is the walls.

    Being at the end of an apartment block, I assume it's the cable walls.

    Couple other SEAI grants could cover the flat roof insulation.

    I could use some door/window grants to address the urgent leaks there.

    It's just the "misleading" HLI value that's concerning.

    And the place is damn cold compared to other apartments I've been in.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 643 ✭✭✭GalaxyRyder


    Screenshot 2026-04-08 124848.png

    An A-I assessment of the report.



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,403 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    youve a mid floor apartment with only 2 exposed surfaces, so its obvious that your walls are the issue, because they are, for all intents and purposes, your only heat loss areas.

    the BER assumes a u value of 0.55 for the walls. Not great but not the worst. If you want to go to the rounds of upgrading your walls you certainly can (most likely internal insulation) but you dont have to.

    same with your windows, theyre double glazed pre 2004 windows which you dont have to change, but you could and be grant assisted for its aswell.

    your door u value is wrong, unless your mid-floor apartment is somehow accessed from the outside??

    the floor and flat roof u values are pretty much immaterial due to the small area (i assume this some kind of bay window feature?)

    your exposed areas are significantly less than a standard house, making your suitability for a heat pump quite high.

    you might even look at an air to air heat pump as being an option, if your apartment isnt huge.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 643 ✭✭✭GalaxyRyder


    Slight caveat.

    I am mid floor, but on the gable end of the building, meaning the unit actually has three exposed surfaces.

    and the gable end has by far the most surface area.

    Yes the front door of the unit is accessed from the outside, but you come into a small cubical basically, then there's another door into the main living.

    I'm unsure what that setup is known as, but it seem designed to conserve heat loss.

    I'm curious would replacing that front door with a better U-value model make any difference?

    But as I said, this place feels cold, for sure. It's a cold apartment.

    Because it's mid floor with a brickwork façade, I'm unsure how suitable it would be for cavity insulation. Then the rooms would require dry lining.

    My thoughts were to use the grant assists to upgrade what I can within their limits, even if it means no upgrading everything. Dry line two rooms, upgrade three windows and so on.

    The final issue I'd consider would be, am I absolutely certain that HLI value is correct, and won't ultimately leave me in a position of having an insufficiently insulated apartment, with a heat pump that has to work overtime to maintain the temperature, inflating my ESB bill.

    And yes, air-to-air or air-to-water, whichever the contractor feels he can install more readily/easily/cheaply, as it's currently just electric convection heaters.

    Post edited by GalaxyRyder on


  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,403 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Well to answer your question, your BER assessor had simply applied the default u value of the wall depending on the agree of the building. Personally I would upgrade it, if budget allows.

    The point however is that you don't HAVE to upgrade it right now, of you want to take a wait and see approach as to how your heart pump running costs look.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 643 ✭✭✭GalaxyRyder


    I contacted one heat pump installer (full retrofitter) who mentioned he usually requests a full HLI report, and works from there.

    So I contacted a HLI assessor who said his HLI assessment is the same as a BER assessment.

    If I'm paying almost 500 for a repeat of that which I already have, I'm not sure that would be money well spent.

    That being said my worst fear would be getting a heat pump and it underperforming.

    One contractor mentioned as above, I could get a pump and if the insulation envelop is insufficient, it would run constantly trying to get the temperature to the correct level, creating an overly inflated ESB bill.

    Other consideration is the cost of dry lining a 3 bed apartment with 3 exposed walls (gable end).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 643 ✭✭✭GalaxyRyder


    My thoughts were to use the grant assists to upgrade what I can within their limits, even if it means no upgrading everything. Dry line two rooms, upgrade three windows and so on.

    Cause my HLI value is already within range, is it actually possible to do this?

    Or via SEAI individual upgrades, does the applicant have to upgrade ALL the windows at one time?

    Or all the doors? (I have two balcony doors and an entrance door).

    My intention was to upgrade what I can within grant limits, and leave the rest.

    But is that possible?

    When it comes to dry lining, a significant area is tiled (bathrooms).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,513 ✭✭✭Rocket_GD


    What is the point in all these made up threads about heat pumps, acoustic insulation etc?

    You don't own the place (if it even exists) no renter is putting this much money into an apartment.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 643 ✭✭✭GalaxyRyder


    Three contractors I've had around all strongly contend the BER rating is false (C2)

    They even think the BER rating on the dwelling report is a stretch (D1), fabricated by assuming optimal conditions such as heat acquisition from the residence underneath.

    Comparing to places I've been in the past, it feels much more like it's in the E range.

    The place is cold, and requires a full retrofit to bring it up to a realistic B2 BER rating.

    Do these assessors and real estate agents literally have no conscience?



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,403 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    You, and the contractors (if they actually exist) are talking out of your holes as none is ye have any idea about how the rating is reached.

    It's very very easy for an electrically heated mid level apartment to reach a C2 rating.b



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 643 ✭✭✭GalaxyRyder


    your door u value is wrong, unless your mid-floor apartment is somehow accessed from the outside??

    How much does a new door cost?

    Preferably one with a significantly improved U value?

    "High performance door".

    I was quoted 2 G's for a new set of patio doors (double doors, opting for triple glaze, preferably with acoustic proofing), not sure if that's correct.



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